Florida’s Rules for 4th DUI Hardship / Business Purpose Only / Employment Purpose Only Permit

Florida recently changed the rules which permanently barred any person with four DUI convictions from obtaining a hardship license (the “business purpose only” or “employment purpose only” license).

The rules are complicated. Even the website for the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle (DHSMV) does NOT explain it.

Many of the provision have a “Got Ya!” effect. One wrong move will prevent you from restoring your driving privileges for even longer.

Disclaimer: The more than 275 comments to this article are far more interesting than the article itself. Also, nothing in this article should be considered legal advice. Talk to an attorney about the facts of your case for legal advice.

Fourth DUI Conviction in Florida – Hardship License After Five (5) Years

The Florida legislature has recently made it possible for an individual convicted of four (4) or more DUI’s to get an “employment purpose only” permit and eventually to obtain a “business purposes only” permit.

After October 1, 2011, the individual must wait at least 5 years from date of the last DUI conviction or when the individual was released from jail or prison on the charge (whichever occurred later). During that 5 year period, the individual must not have driven for any reason or consumed any alcoholic beverage.

If the driver tells anyone at the DHSMV or the DUI Special Supervision Services Program that he drank, used any illegal drugs or drove without a license during those five (5) years then the person is not eligible for a hardship permit for another 5 years.

How to Apply for a Hardship License in Florida after a 4th DUI

Step 1: Go to the Bureau of Administrative Reviews for the DMV in the county in which you live to have a obtain a hearing. At the hearing, you will be asked the following questions:

  • Have you been cited or arrested for any drug or alcohol charge within the last five years? (If the answer is yes then you are not eligible).
  • If not, have you consumed any illegal drugs, non-prescribed prescription medication, or alcohol in the last five years? (If the answer is yes then you are not eligible).
  • Have you been cited or arrested for any offense that involved driving a motor vehicle for any reason within the last five years? (If the answer is yes then you are not eligible).
  • If not, have you driven a vehicle for any reason in the last five years? (If the answer is yes then you are not eligible).
  • Have you completed the approved DUI school program? (If the answer is no then you are not eligible)
  • If so, please show me your certificate of completion for DUI school. (You must have the original certificate showing compliance with this requirement).

Step 2: If the hearing officers decides that you are eligible for a Florida hardship license, then during the first year you are eligible for a “employment purpose” only license. After the first year, you can reapply for the “business purpose” only license.

Step 3: The hearing officer will send you a letter which indicates you are eligible to obtain the hardship “business purpose” only driver’s license. The letter will instruct you to obtain a recommendation from the Special Services Program.

Step 4: Apply for a recommendation with the Florida Special Supervision Services Program. You must submit to an evaluation. If you accepted into the program, you must also obtain the ignition interlock device for the specified period (which might be forever). You must remain in the Special Supervision Services Program for the entire time that you have the hardship license (which means the rest of your life if you have 4 or more DUI convictions on your Florida Driver’s License).

Step 5: Take the letter from the Special Supervision Services Program back to the Bureau of Formal Review so that they can issue you another letter which authorizes you to obtain the employment purpose only license.

Step 6: Take the letter to any full-service DMV office and pay the fees required.

Suspension Periods in Florida for Multiple DUI Convictions

Florida law requires that the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles impose certain periods of suspension depending on the number of prior convictions and the timing of those convictions.

Even after the suspension is imposed the driver may be eligible to apply for a hardship license as explained below.

  • Second DUI within Five (5) Years – Requires Five (5) Year Florida DL Suspension

Under Florida law, a second DUI within five years requires a five (5) year driver license suspension. After one year, however, the person can apply for a hardship license.

At the time of application, the DHSMV will check to see if the person has been caught drive or if the person admits to driving even if the person was never cited for any driving offense during the one (1) year period.

  • Third DUI within Ten (10) Years – Requires Ten (10) Year Florida DL Suspension

Under Florida law, a third DUI conviction within ten (10) years of the first DUI conviction requires a ten (10) year driver license suspension. After two (2) years from the date of the conviction, however, the person can apply for a hardship license.

At the time of application, the DHSMV will check to see if the person has been caught drive or if the person admits to driving even if the person was never cited for any driving offense during the two (2) year period.

  • Fourth or Subsequent Lifetime DUI Conviction – Requires a Permanent Florida DL Suspension

Under Florida law, a fourth DUI conviction (no matter when the prior convictions occurred) requires a permanent driver license suspension.

That permanent DL suspension previously meant that the person could never regain any privileges to drive in Florida under any circumstance. Now those rules have finally changed.

 After the fourth or subsequent DUI conviction, before applying for the hardship license the person must wait five (5) years from the date of conviction or from the date that the person was released from jail or prison (whichever occurred later). See Florida Statute 322.271(5)-(6).

At the time of application, the DHSMV will check to see if the person has been caught drive or if the person admits to driving even if the person was never cited for any driving offense during the five (5) year period.

Additionally, at the time of application, the DHSMV will check to see if the person has been caught drinking alcohol or using any illegal drug or or if the person admits to drinking alcohol or using any illegal drug even if the person was never cited for any driving offense during the five (5) year period.

If deemed eligible, the driver can pursue a “employment purpose only” driver license for the first year. Thereafter, the person can apply for the broader “business purpose only” driver license.

Types of Hardship Drivers License

Florida law provides for two different types of hardship licenses.

  • The “business purposes only” driver license allows someone to drive to work, school, the doctor, a lawyer and other limited purposes. Pursuant to Florida Statute Section 322.271(1)(c)(1), the “business purposes only” license allows any driving “necessary to maintain livelihood.”
  • The “employment purposes only” driver license has a more limited purpose because it only allows someone to drive to or from work or for legitimate on-the-job driving purposes.

Eligibility is Only the Beginning – Florida’s DUI Special Supervision Services Program

Once you determine that you are eligible, you must meet several conditions including submitting to Florida’ Special Supervision Services Program for the entire period that you have the hardship license. In addition to other requirements, you must also obtain the ignition interlock device for the specified period.

Read more about the Hillsborough County Supervision Services Program located at 4711 N. Hubert, P.O. Box 151351, Tampa, FL 33684, telephone number (813) 875-6201 including the maze of specific requirements.

Additional Information from the DHSMV Website on Obtaining a Hardship Driver’s License:

3rd DUI – third offense not within 10 years of second conviction will result in a 180-day to 1-year revocation, unless the last 2 of the convictions fall within 5 years in which case a 5-year revocation will apply. You are not eligible for a hardship license, but must wait out the revocation period.

A third offense within 10 years of second conviction will result in a 10-year revocation. You must serve 2 years of this revocation period before being eligible to apply for a hardship license in the Administrative Reviews Office (see listing “Under Suspension – Need Driver License for Work”) where you live.

You must complete DUI School, and treatment, if referred, and have a favorable recommendation from the Special Supervision Services Program to be eligible for a hardship license. If given approval to reinstate early for hardship, you must present this approval to the driver license office.

You must remain in the Special Supervision Services Program for the duration of the revocation period to retain your hardship license.

If you wait to reinstate until after your revocation period ends, proof of enrollment or completion of DUI School, and treatment, if referred, is required. Failure to complete the course within 90 days after reinstatement will result in cancellation of your driver license by the department until the course is completed. Failure to complete treatment may result in cancellation of your driver license.

At the time of reinstatement, whether for a hardship license or a full license, you must take the required examination, and pay an Administrative fee and revocation reinstatement fee and any license fee required. For a DUI conviction on or prior to October 1, 2007, you must provide proof of bodily injury liability insurance in the amount of 10,000 per person and $20,000 per occurrence and $10,000 property damage liability on the arrest date or proof of bodily injury liability coverage and a $15 reinstatement fee will be required.

Any DUI conviction after October 1, 2007, must provide proof of bodily injury liability insurance in the amount of 100,000 per person, 300,000 per occurrence and 50,000 property damage liability on the arrest date or proof of liability coverage and a reinstatement fee of $150 up to $500, for subsequent violations will be required.

See also Ignition Interlock Requirements.

4th DUI or Subsequent DUI Conviction – You must serve 5 years of this revocation period before being eligible to apply for a hardship license in the Administrative Reviews Office (see listing “Under Suspension – Need Driver License for Work”) where you live.

You must complete DUI School, and treatment, if referred, and have a favorable recommendation from the Special Supervision Services Program to be eligible for a hardship license. If given approval to reinstate early for hardship, you must present this approval to the driver license office. You must remain in the Special Supervision Services Program to retain your hardship license.

At the time of reinstatement you must take the required examination, and pay an Administrative fee and revocation reinstatement fee and any license fee required. For a DUI conviction on or prior to October 1, 2007, you must provide proof of bodily injury liability insurance in the amount of 10,000 per person and $20,000 per occurrence and $10,000 property damage liability on the arrest date or pay a $15 reinstatement fee.

Any DUI conviction after October 1, 2007, must provide proof of bodily injury liability insurance in the amount of 100,000 per person, 300,000 per occurrence and 50,000 property damage liability on the arrest date or pay a fee of $150 up to $500.

See also Ignition Interlock Requirements.

Leave a Comment

If you have been through the process of obtaining a hardship license in Florida after a 4th DUI please leave a message below. We would love to hear about your experience navigating this process.


  1. Mark
    Posted April 4, 2011 at 01:09 | Permalink | Reply

    I received my 4th dui in Fl. in 1998. I have no convictions, no alcohol, and no drugs or crimes since then. I have been living in Merietta, Ga. since 1999. What do I need to do to receive at least an employement purpose only permit?

    Please help, I have been praying for this for so long. My brother still lives in Fl. and he told me about this.

  2. james
    Posted May 12, 2011 at 00:18 | Permalink | Reply

    i had 2 dui’s in KY in 1989, 1 in Broward Co, FL in 1992, 1 in KY in 2000, KY has a 5 year wash out period, when they said how do you plead to your 1st offence I plead guilty without any knowledge of what florida was going to do, I had not lived in florida since 1992, so I feel like I should be able to try and get the courts in KY to realize I plead under false pretence without knowing I was going to be permanatly revoked ,worse than than that guilt a felony charge i never was even brought to court on, It’s bullshit how in the hell can state senate see a fair conclusion here , Judge you had a public drunk charge in 1982 , step down, people do and can recover from addiction and be very productive members of society, its kind of Ironic , florida has no wash out period

    • Posted June 26, 2011 at 16:02 | Permalink | Reply

      Yes. When charged with a DUI out of state, you really have to hire an attorney to defend you on the charge and seek advice from an attorney in your home state to understand all the consequences to your Florida driver’s license. Florida will treat that out of state DUI as if it occurred here and impose the same revocations.

    • Mel
      Posted July 7, 2014 at 10:47 | Permalink | Reply

      I live in Florida for 60 years, since Birth. We all or most of us, plead guilty not knowing that it would be a permanent revocation. As a matter of fact, the law wasn’t even in effect in ’98 when I got my last dui. The judge revoked my license for five years and I met all the requirements set forth by the court and the law, then settled in to wait for the five year revocation to expire. About four years later, I received a letter in the mail advising me my DL were now revoked for life. later I received a letter from an attorney in north Florida that if I paid $99.00 I could join in the fight to get a hardship license and they won their case. But the DMV gave me the hard runaround, since they were not happy about the change in the law. By the time I won my right to my hardship hearing, I had been caught driving. In addition to my punishment for that,I had to wait five more years for another hardship hearing. This time, even though I am sorely against drugs, my medical records which they require; if any exist, stated I accepted an Rx pain pill from a friend when I tore a muscle in my back. Denied again! I am now a little over four years waiting for another hardship hearing, which I know they will exhaust every effort to prove that I am not qualified to drive even though Florida has a privacy act for medical information, I had voluntarily given them the information they needed to deny me, voluntarily! In my opinion, imposing one sentence in a court of law and then four years later moderating or increasing that sentence is against the constitution of the United States and this is why they justify it by calling it a “Public Safety issue”. I had made up my mind in 1998 that enough was enough so I put down the drink and never picked it up again which was hard at first but 7-11’s Big Gulps became my friend for a while, until I no longer needed that rush of buying a drink from a store. I do not go to bars, I have found that there are other social activities out there that do not require the consumption of alcohol.

  3. mark
    Posted June 24, 2011 at 15:23 | Permalink | Reply

    I have 4th dui in 10 years..may of 2012 will be 5 years since conviction and time served…I have been told as of 10/1/2011 the law has changed,so you can qualify for hardship in 5 years?After you get this license can you eventaly move to another state with this hardship and get a licence in that state or will I only be able to drive in the state of FL?

    • Posted June 26, 2011 at 15:58 | Permalink | Reply


      Yes, the law changed as of 10/1/2011, and now the waiting period is 5 years instead of 10 years if you have a permanent revocation of your driver’s license in Florida because of a fourth lifetime DUI conviction.

      It is my understanding that you only qualify for the hardship license if you are a resident of the State of Florida. In other words, you may not ever be able to get a driver’s license in another state because the other state will show you received a lifetime revocation in Florida.

      But if you live in Florida and jump through all the hoops you might qualify for a hardship license. As a matter of policy, this just means Florida is encouraging all the people with FL revocations for four DUI convictions to stay in Florida forever so they can get a hardship license.

      The states should really work together so that if a driver is qualified for a hardship in one state that new state would also provide that same or a similar opportunity. But at least now there is an opportunity for a hardship in Florida.

      [This is not legal advice. You have to pay for legal advice. This is just a discussion about my general understanding of the application of these rules as they might apply to a particular situation. If anyone has any different ideas or experiences, please make a comment].

      Leslie Sammis

      • Posted May 14, 2013 at 11:36 | Permalink

        What about Speedy trials where the State had No Counsel(Public Defenders) present in court.5th and 6th Amendments.The court has no Waiver of Counsel,No stanard forms for payment to the Clerks of the Courts for the Public Defender.

        I fell I like I was forced to enter a Plea of No Contest on a Misdemeanor at that Time.Not Knowing that Years later I would Have a Permenant Revocation on a Fourth Dui.

        Seeking to find Relief on Two of the Dui’s without Counsel.Any Help

  4. Posted July 23, 2011 at 21:19 | Permalink | Reply

    I got a dui in 1982 when I was 17 years old. After gastric bypass surgery, I got 3 dui’s in 2 months (12/07-02/08). Attorney did not even get one reduced. Is it possible, after the fact, to provide scientific information about my situation and possibly restore driving privileges? I am very active in my recovery. This loss of dl severely limits my ability to grow professionally and personally.

  5. richard
    Posted September 30, 2011 at 20:06 | Permalink | Reply

    Go to colorado they will give them back!

    • JOE KING
      Posted October 12, 2011 at 05:02 | Permalink | Reply

      how can u get a lincense in colorodo w/ 4 duis in fla.? need help tks

    • Mark
      Posted October 2, 2011 at 04:17 | Permalink | Reply

      Richard…back to anyone?

    • JOE KING
      Posted December 13, 2011 at 04:23 | Permalink | Reply

      use some advice pls

    • Lisa
      Posted January 12, 2012 at 03:05 | Permalink | Reply

      How can you get a license in COLORADO???

  6. Jon Berggren
    Posted October 2, 2011 at 22:06 | Permalink | Reply

    Convicted Felony DUI March 2007.

    Sentenced to 2 years probation.

    Can I get my license after conviction date?

    Or is it after probation date ?

    Cause that adds on 2 more years.

    Also the arrest was in September 2006 !

  7. Mark
    Posted December 14, 2011 at 00:19 | Permalink | Reply

    Joe King…I only have 1 DUI in Fla. and 3 in Virginia.

  8. vknqueen
    Posted February 14, 2012 at 15:43 | Permalink | Reply

    I had three dui’s in michigan got the 4th in florida in 93. no offenses since then…they called this a felony dui and I was revoked for life in florida. What are my chances of getting this exponged? I live in florida again,my father is here, elderly, I really need to be able to drive to help him out. What are my possible options?

    • Posted February 15, 2012 at 10:28 | Permalink | Reply

      A person is not eligible under Florida law to seal or expunge a DUI conviction or any “conviction” for that matter. We have a page on our main website devoted to this topic – Seal or Expunge Criminal Records under Florida law. I think you are really interested in being able to drive again. Florida law now provides that even though you have a lifetime revocation in Florida you are eligible to apply for a hardship license after a fourth DUI conviction if you meet all of the requirements explained in the blog post.

  9. robert barrowman
    Posted February 19, 2012 at 07:13 | Permalink | Reply

    3 duis in fl one in ky one in la any hope for me for hard ship in fl. i called the dmv they said yes twice .iam concerned about when all the hoops start will these other d u i s surfice will i be shot down then. my fl record shows only two duis on my driving record please advise me please thank you robert barrowman dl number b655-766-510280

  10. Mike Moore
    Posted February 24, 2012 at 10:11 | Permalink | Reply

    Good morning,
    A little background first.
    My Fl License was permanatly revoked for multible DUI’s in 1999. I am currently in working on my 14th year of sobriety.
    When the law was changed I had a hearing at the Tampa DMV on Oct 1 2010 at which time was granted a hardship license(they said I was the first in the state to receive this under the new laws). I received my license in Nov 2010. My car is equiped with interlock device and I am under SSS supervision at Tri-County in Lakeland.
    My question is…The law as written states that I must report for supervision at least 4 times a year or as the program requires. Tri-County says No. They said I had to report each mounth for 5 years and bimonthly the 6th year…then it would go to quarterly in the 7th year. I do know of others that are in SSS with Tri-County in the Winter Haven office that are on quarterly after the 2nd year and bi-monthly after the 1st year. I’m wondering if this is Florida law or just their policy? I am trying to cut expenses and the extra $65 a month would help me greatly. Also trying to move to Tennessee so is there any chance of transfering jurisdiction there? The interlock can be transfered to TN but not the supervision. She said I would have to come to Fla each month for that. That is not possible being a single father with an 8 year old in school. I could do this if it were on a quarterly basis.
    Trust me, I’m not trying to beat the system, but trying to work within it.
    Do you see any relief for me here?
    Thank you for your time.
    Mike M.

  11. Dee
    Posted June 19, 2012 at 12:45 | Permalink | Reply

    Lost FL driving privileges for 4th DUI. Got Hardship license. Kept our residence in FL for years. Over time, supervision reduced to quarterly but always concerned they would revoke privilege all together. Moved and received restricted Georgia DL. Moved to another state and now have this state’s DL.

    Twenty-five years of recovery. Still fly quarterly to Florida for Supervision; along with urine tests, submit local police reports, pay fines, and so on. Sad it never ends and expensive to maintain. My family cannot believe it can’t be fixed. Paying the price. Who knew? Try to be grateful I can drive at all.

    • Mike Moore
      Posted June 19, 2012 at 19:36 | Permalink | Reply

      Thanks for the response.Does Florida know you have out of state DL.
      Thats what puzzles me. It seems we would be breaking the laws of 2 states by holding both DL’s

  12. Kathy
    Posted July 12, 2012 at 15:58 | Permalink | Reply

    I am trying to help a man who had 4 DUIs, one in 72,(in Virginia), one in 78, and two in 84. Three of them were in Florida. He has lived in California since the late 80’s, has been clean for years and has a good job here. He had a valid California license for many years, but when he went to renew this last time, they found the Florida hold and would not let him renew until the FL hold was removed. This is when he learned about the changes in FL law and the permanent revocation.

    His whole life is in CA, and he does not want to return to FL. Does anyone have any ideas as to how he can legally drive again? He cannot afford to move back to FL.

    • Mel
      Posted August 1, 2014 at 00:27 | Permalink | Reply

      OK, now I am confused. I knew the lifetime revocation was retroacted back to the date the law was proposed, but without checking on it, I thought that the law was proposed in 1998 and that my last DUI was approx. 2 weeks inside the date the law was proposed. It’s sound’s like you are saying that it goes back to before 1984. I know of people that were not affected by the perm revoke law that had their 5th dui prior to 1998. Unless they have managed to change the constitution of the US to allow them to include people that were not even subject to a law that wasn’t even considered yet. If he has a perm revoke from a 4th in 84, you need to check his record further for additional reasons he has a perm revoke.

  13. Nik
    Posted July 22, 2012 at 18:44 | Permalink | Reply

    Responding to Dee’s message where she writes:
    Twenty-five years of recovery. Still fly quarterly to Florida for Supervision; along with urine tests, submit local police reports, pay fines, and so on. Sad it never ends and expensive to maintain. My family cannot believe it can’t be fixed. Paying the price. Who knew? Try to be grateful I can drive at all.

    My question:
    I wonder if the other states will someday work together with Florida so when a person moves to another state, they can avoid having to fly back and forth to report to the Supervision in Florida. I mean really…can’t another state take over the Supervision for Florida and if it’s all a matter of money (which is ultimately what it is all about) just send Florida the money?

    • Jay
      Posted September 21, 2012 at 10:17 | Permalink | Reply

      Don’t ever get into the trap of Florida
      Supervision program. Its all a scam to get people to stay in Florida and take in more money.

  14. Jeff
    Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:25 | Permalink | Reply

    I have a reckless driving conviction from 2005, and a DUI 1st from 2009, the DUI my license was susoended so I was charged with that also. I was convicted on habitual driving offender. It has been about 2 years since the DUI. I am currently working and need a license for my job to continue, I am getting the run around from Florida on how to obtain a hardship/Business purpose license. Do you have any sughgestions or what should I do?

  15. Jay
    Posted September 21, 2012 at 02:10 | Permalink | Reply

    Looks like colorado is the place to
    go live after 4DUI in Florida.
    No hurricaines either.

    • john c campbell
      Posted October 7, 2012 at 16:34 | Permalink | Reply

      iread in west law that it takes two felony convictions and two mistermeaner conviction of dui to get lifetime suspendion i got 3 mistermeanor and 1 felony can i overturn the lifetime suspendions or can i get a license in a common wealth state like virgina

      • Mel
        Posted October 14, 2014 at 14:25 | Permalink

        All four of my DUI convictions are misdemeaners, all are in Florida where I have lived since birth. My conviction for driving on a perm revoked license (2004) was a Felony (adjudication withheld) I didn’t lose my rights. I can still vote, but potential employers don’t see the adjudication withheld part. Don’t know if that makes a difference in some other states, but it doesn’t in Florida.

  16. Anonymous
    Posted October 21, 2012 at 00:49 | Permalink | Reply

    i ahd 4 dui florida took them for life all they wanted was money money , never had a wreck or anything 2 dui was in my 20s 30 years later i got another i was sitting in my car had a open beer slamm got another and was so very depressed went out with friends and the last time a 4th fl. said fck you your done 11 years later i moved to colorado and they gave me a dl , thank you the wonderfull state of colorado ty

    • tom
      Posted November 9, 2012 at 08:45 | Permalink | Reply

      What did you have to do in Colorado to get licence?What did you have to show them,records,etc.
      Did they know about Florida?

      • Brian
        Posted November 20, 2012 at 11:20 | Permalink

        I didn’t know I could do that. Even after 30 years? I’m quite sure I didn’t have a lawyer at the time of that first conviction, but even if I could get Virginia to expunge that 82′ dui, would Florida then be obligated under the law to reverse their permanent revocation conviction? Would I need a lawyer to accomplish this?

      • Brian
        Posted November 15, 2012 at 11:31 | Permalink

        3 dui’s in Virginia, 1 in 1982, 2 in 1984, 1 in Florida 1992. Now I live and work in Wisconsin. Even if I were to comply with Florida, which is impossible anyway because there is no way I can afford to fly to Florida once a month to attend their special supervision program. Wisconsin will not honor the occupational license. Colorado is the only way to go for me too. Except for the fact that it would be quite an undertaking to have to find a job in Colorado, quit my job here and relocate, I would already be there.

        I’ve been sober now for 12 years and have a clean record. There is no reason why I should not be allowed to drive now especially since I have more than paid the price for drinking and driving. It’s been over 20 years of having to burden other people with my transportation needs.The lawmakers of Florida and every other state in this country who honors such a law are just plain assholes in my opinion. Even some murderer’s are forgiven at some point and allowed to resume a normal life.

      • Kathy
        Posted November 17, 2012 at 15:07 | Permalink

        I know of two people in California in a similar situation (both have been sober a long time, have good jobs (and for years had valid CA licenses, until Florida changed their law)), with California recognizing Florida’s very restrictive law. Is there a chance that your first DUI was a plea without an attorney? Maybe that would be a way to get that one eliminated? This law is a very difficult one, as it was passed after the first offenses…

  17. Tim
    Posted November 27, 2012 at 06:39 | Permalink | Reply

    I say we all set up a fund and hire a lobbyist to propose a new law dealing with 4th DUI laws in Florida.

    • Brian
      Posted November 28, 2012 at 10:38 | Permalink | Reply

      I’m all for it.

      • Mike Moore
        Posted November 28, 2012 at 20:04 | Permalink

        Yeah, that’s what changed the law now to allow 4th and up offenders to be able to get a license…
        ya might have the blow the whole house in Tallahassee to get it changed anymore…

      • rick
        Posted February 8, 2013 at 15:59 | Permalink

        iam for it also!!!! i thank they should
        let you take one off after 10 to 15 years . one in a life time !!

      • Mel
        Posted October 14, 2014 at 14:39 | Permalink

        My 1st DUI was forty years ago. My last was sixteen years ago.

  18. Posted January 17, 2013 at 07:47 | Permalink | Reply

    I’ve had 2 DUIs in Fla. There’s a new law that states that if you refused the first one then you refuse the second time you do 60 days. Also the the new insurance form is FR-44 instead of SR 22. Do to all the frawdulant cases in Fla. Insurance companys charge 5,000 or more per year and you must obtain it for 3yrs. I can image what it coast after 4 DUIs. Good luck to everyone.

  19. bsimoneau
    Posted February 13, 2013 at 08:14 | Permalink | Reply

    What are the ignition interlock requirements associated with Florida Hardship Licenses? Massachusetts requires anyone on a hardship license to use an ignition interlock device. Does Florida have the same requirements?

  20. Danny
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 16:07 | Permalink | Reply

    I had two Dui’s and convicted in court in the 80′ and 90’s with no Public Defender or Attorney.On my 4 Dui I went to prison.I filed pro se motions(3) to find out how the court can convict me on a Felony when I had be denied Counsel in two previous Dui’s.I would like these removed from my records and get my Drivers License Back.
    I have completed all that DMV has required me to do,ie interlockClasses and Counseling.
    The Right to Counsel Ignored in Northwest Florida.

  21. Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:59 | Permalink | Reply

    I have 3 dui’s in fl from 1998. I was sentenced to three yrs in fl D.O.C. for dui and none related dui charges. I was released in 7/00. I moved to Ohio. I got 2 more dui’s… Now Ohio will let me have my driving privileges back; However,FL has a hold on me cause they pulled the Ohio duis and added the duis to my Fl DMV saying I have 4 or mor DUI’s. How is that possible??? thank you.

  22. Tim
    Posted August 5, 2013 at 15:41 | Permalink | Reply

    Law Makers are dropping the ball here, people overcome youthful wild and or addictions.I have a brother who had 4 dui’s over 36 years and the first one at age 19 was the only deserving one. Nobody was ever hurt and a bad tail light had him pulled over otw home from a work outing for #4 in florida 24 years later..He tried to defend against it w a trial and lost??? Florida gave him 4.5 years in state prison with the bad guys . He had never been in jail and went through F HELL…now he lives with me in massachusetts and cant get a license…he is a proffessional appraiser. He lost his home, his wife and kids and he doesnt drink but only an occasional glass of wine??? Pretty Harsh I say….so he has applied for SS disability, Welfare, Workmans unemployment benifits, Food Stamps…….So..Florida, Mass, RMV’s everywhere…I hope your happy, youve aided in ruining a good mans life…..

    • Brian
      Posted August 6, 2013 at 11:07 | Permalink | Reply

      I agree the law is ridiculous. My first dui was in Virginia 1982. I was only 19 at the time. That was over 30 years ago. My second and 3rd dui was 1n 1984 and the last one was in 1992. I haven’t touched a drop of alcohol in almost 13 years. Even if I still lived in Florida I still wouldn’t be able to get the hardship license because of the cost. The dmv has made it so complicated and expensive that many people couldn’t afford it anyway. Yes, they have pretty much ruined my life also. I realize that I have to take full responsibility for getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, but since then I have more than paid the price and suffered for my crime. Now I’ve had to struggle for the last 21 years, not being able to find decent employment and being dependent on someone else for transportation for over 21 years. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The lawmakers of Florida and the Florida DMV and every DMV in this country who goes along with Florida are just plain assholes. It’s not about public safety either. I asked a lady at the Florida DMV back in 1997 what the statistics were regarding dui’s and if there was a reduction in dui’s since the permanent revocation law went in to effect. She said no. Arrests for dui’s were about the same yet the arrest rate for people driving on revoked dl
      s had increased tremendously. I don’t remember the percentage she have me because it was such a long time ago but I think the penalty for driving on a permanently revoked license is a felony and you can get 3 years in jail. Isn’t that nice. Job security for the judges and jailers. It’s all about money and the business of keeping people trapped in their little judicial web.

  23. Jennifer
    Posted January 7, 2014 at 14:40 | Permalink | Reply

    Do all 4th DUI convictions have mandatory jail time? or is it a case by case basis?

    • tim
      Posted January 7, 2014 at 16:12 | Permalink | Reply

      my brother had 3 before 24 yrs old and got his fourth at 52 yrs old ….he had a tail light out and was pulled over…the officer smelled the alcohol even tho he was barely over limit, did 4 years in jail at st port lucey….he was a proffessional, good family etc….because of so much confinement time he talks to himself and hears voices because of a shit florida corrections system full of people who dont give a crap. lost his wife and 2 children by time he got out and has cost his family thousands because he cant work w out a hardship license….THE LAW IS 5 YEARS from time he gets out he can apply for hardship license…………

    • lsammis
      Posted January 7, 2014 at 15:10 | Permalink | Reply

      I’ve listed below the minimum manatory jail time and statutory maximum jail time which depends on the way the DUI is charged. A fourth DUI can be charged as a felony which has no minimum mandatory jail time required (although the prosecutor might still ask for jail time). Additionally, in a felony DUI case the scoresheet might indicate that a certain amount of jail time is required but that depends on the otehr charges and prior offenses. A fourth DUI might also be charged as a misdemeanor especially when the prosecutor cannot prove up one of the prior convictions (because it is too old or the defendant was not represented by counsel or for other reasons).

      Those misdemeanor charges may come with statutory minimum mandatory jail time – for instance, a third DUI within 10 years of any prior conviction comes with 30 days in jail with at least 48 hours consecutive. But those period of manatory jail time apply only if you are convicted of DUI. If the case is reduced to reckless driving then no jail time is required.

      Also, even if manatory jail time is required by statute for a second or third DUI, at the court’s discretion, the court may allow that jail time to be served in a residential alcoholism or drug abuse treatment program, with credit day for day awarded toward the term of imprisonment.

    • First Conviction: Not more than 6 months. With BAL of .15 or higher or minor in the vehicle: Not more than 9 months.
    • Second Conviction: Not more than 9 months. With BAL of .15 or higher or minor in the vehicle: Not more than 12 months. If second conviction within 5 years, mandatory imprisonment of at least 10 days. At least 48 hours of confinement must be consecutive.
    • Third Conviction: If third conviction within 10 years, mandatory imprisonment of at least 30 days. At least 48 hours of confinement must be consecutive. If third conviction more than 10 years, imprisonment for not more than 12 months.
    • Fourth or Subsequent Conviction: Not more than 5 years or as provided in s.775.084, Florida Statutes, as habitual/violent offender.
  24. Ann Marie Berletich
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 06:49 | Permalink | Reply

    To whom this concerns,
    I have not had a drivers licence ,for eleven years. My 4 DUI’s took care of that. I have been sober, and have never driven since. To scared of going back to jail. My friend told me, ” buy a $400.00 dollar and put my old tag it.. I thought she was out of her mind. I was already in big trouble . Why do something more idiotic. I sent the tag back in. I need to help my best friend and landlord Now! He has Lung cancer and I’m so hurting for him. Please tell me what I can do to help him, after he either gets better or the worse happens. I will send the license back.. Please help me and tell me what I need to do.. Please All My THANKS

  25. skip
    Posted June 7, 2014 at 03:35 | Permalink | Reply

    I had 3 DUI’s 2 at age 25 and 28 obtained CDL even after my third in the state of Maryland while traveling in Florida got my fourth DUI stay in Florida to take care of it higher ed a Lawyer who said this was my first DUI in Florida free bargain and get your license back I surrendered my Maryland CDL and proceeded to sit out refusal one year suspension was then told and giving a Florida license
    for 2 years with breathalyzer restriction and insurance at 4:44 this was 3 years after the conviction 14 days after we movie breathalyzer and lowering my insurance Florida permanently revoked me I cannot get out of St Johns County letter to the judge refused to reopen my case because are statutes of limitation even when my lower admitted on the stand I’m his lack of knowledge of my driving record then hard another attorney to reopen case judge and prosecutor refused I’m 67 years old and they won’t the 77-year-old man a hardship license where can I go to get driving privileges can anybody help

    • Mario
      Posted September 19, 2014 at 00:32 | Permalink | Reply

      Hi skip, ,,Florida has ruin my lifr,,i moved here from.Maryland on a valid driver license, ,i surrendered my.license without checking thr laws, ,,now im revoke for life,,my last dui in 2002 ,,all in Maryland, ,so i want tobbecome a Florida residents, ,,they gave me a valid Florida license then July 28 2014 i got the notice in my saying im.revoke for life ,,snd can’t even get bsck my Maryland license where there’s no citation on it, ,

  26. JC
    Posted June 28, 2014 at 20:43 | Permalink | Reply

    Anyone lately got a Drivers License
    back in colorado after a 4th in Florida?
    I hear people doing it and just stay out there. Florida seems to want to keep people in their programs for life for more and more money.

  27. JC
    Posted June 29, 2014 at 11:25 | Permalink | Reply

    After the five years of interlock on car
    with 4th DUI, what does the supervision
    program involve. They say you have to stay in the program, what does it do?

  28. Mel
    Posted July 5, 2014 at 21:59 | Permalink | Reply

    There are a lot of sites out there where people in “our” situation are seeking advice about how to get their license back after four DUI’s. My license was revoked for five years after my last DUI in 1998, that was sixteen years ago.

    I have no other criminal records. After waiting 4.5 years of my suspension to get my license back, I was informed by a form letter that my license were now revoked for life.

    I am appalled to learn that they actually went back and re-revoked peoples licenses after they had been driving, safely for years. In 2004 I received a felony conviction for driving on a permanently revoked license.

    At my last DUI stop, It hit me in the head like a hammer, I am an alcoholic and would never be able to drink again and I haven’t.(My attorney was able to get the adjudication withheld so I wouldn’t lose my professional license) but I still did a year of felony probation.

    There are a lot of people advocating for tougher and tougher punishments for DUI offenders, mostly MADD who I believe run the supervisory programs earning them upwards of millions per year. I believe that the only way people in our situation will change this is to become advocates ourselves and work to change the laws.

    Should we have been punished, absolutely! Should we be punished for the rest of our lives, even if they do swear it’s a public safety issue and not punishment: Absolutely not. If we have proven that we have learned and have lived productive lives without alcohol and or drugs(I never used drugs)then we should be allowed to live a normal life including driving a car without restrictions or supervision.

    The only way we will ever accomplish this is to find an attorney that will be willing to represent us in our advocacy. We need to create a petition and get enough signatures from people that are registered to vote in Florida demanding that the law be changed. Who agrees with me on this?

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 6, 2014 at 12:29 | Permalink | Reply

      Put it together and lets do it! We don’t have nothing to lose.

    • Posted July 7, 2014 at 10:51 | Permalink | Reply

      I will definitely sign it. You need to really get the word out though beyond this forum, and I am willing to help in any way I can.

      • Mel
        Posted July 7, 2014 at 19:25 | Permalink

        Thx checking into it

    • Posted February 5, 2015 at 16:52 | Permalink | Reply

      I will sign it to we shouldn`t be punished for life .

      • bill
        Posted February 16, 2015 at 19:31 | Permalink

        Where is everybody at did you all get your drivers license LOL?

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 8, 2014 at 00:54 | Permalink | Reply

      I’m in. Although I am not currently in FL, I will support the cause that can help us recover our driving privileges. It has been 6.5 years for me, and it has been very difficult not being able to drive.

  29. JimBoe
    Posted July 6, 2014 at 16:34 | Permalink | Reply

    Florida sucks and I would never be in their supervided programs. That is crazy and people need to vote that out and change the law of florida going back as far as they want to get a 4th dui on someone. Hitler ideas and MADD is behind it. They will do the same to text driving
    and MADD will be behind that aswell.
    Its like prohibition all over trying to control people and they nver never will.
    People will text and talk on phones for
    ever which is worse then drinking so what will they do next. Hell they let
    the same sex get married in this screwed up country so what else is new. Gay pride
    in a kids world of Disney World that is screwed up too don’t you think.
    Im glad I would never need to have to go through their programs they run in Florida. You people in Florida need to stand up and fight back to MADD they will
    control you whole driving life if you don’t look out, No kissing in the car, no smoking, no eating whats next I say.

    • Mel
      Posted July 6, 2014 at 20:30 | Permalink | Reply

      Do you know the house bill number?

  30. Ray
    Posted July 14, 2014 at 19:20 | Permalink | Reply

    In 2002, I accepted a misdemeanor plea bargain agreement for a 6 month drivers license suspension. It was my 4th conviction. I would have never done this if I would have known about the DMV’s secondary court system that places the defendant on trial twice for the same offence without appointed legal representation or 5th amendment rights in their DMV court.

    Because driving is a privilege, the DMV can impose life destroying secondary punishments at any time. Your Constitutional rights are the only thing not to be considered a privilege in their court.

    To add insult to injury, I won the DMV’s hearing on this DUI charge and had my license reinstated due to lack of evidence. Lack of evidence is why I was offered the misdemeanor plea bargain arrangement on a 4th DUI offence.

    After I accepted the plea bargain from the state, the DMV reversed their reinstatement and revoked me for life on the grounds that I now have 4 DUI convictions, regardless that I had already won the DMV’s reinstatement hearing for this charge.

    I have no felonies, I’m serving a 77 year or life sentence for a 12 year old misdemeanor conviction. This is unacceptable so I had no choice but to move to Colorado. The maximum suspension in Colorado is 5 years unless you killed someone. I will be required to be a Colorado resident for 1 year before I can apply. After approval, I will required to have a breath interlock device for 2 years and must prove alcohol counseling attendance.

    I will do my alcohol counseling in Colorado because as you can see in this article, the Florida lifetime counseling is completely insane. Thank God for Colorado, because of Florida I had no other choice but to leave the United States permanently in order to survive if it was not for Colorado.

    • Posted July 15, 2014 at 13:40 | Permalink | Reply

      Thanks for sharing that information. I’ve heard other people tell me the same thing about Colorado’s program.

  31. Ray
    Posted July 16, 2014 at 21:25 | Permalink | Reply

    Here is some great information on this website. Basically; Colorado applies Colorado Law to an Applicants driving record and if they are allowed to drive in Colorado their license will reinstated. Colorado Law allows an applicant with 4 DUI’s convictions to drive again after 5 years. Of course there are no guarantees as each case is different. There is only hope, where there is no hope in Florida. It is completely up to the Colorado DMV for reinstatement and they have different requirements for each case.


    • Ray
      Posted July 17, 2014 at 19:28 | Permalink | Reply

      Also, don’t freak out about the “Who shall not be reinstated” section in this article. Yes, Permanent Lifetime DUI Revocations shall not be reinstated in Colorado. The Law changed in Florida in 2011 and you can get your license back. For your own best interest, Jump through Colorado’s Hoops instead of Florida’s to get it done.

    • Mel
      Posted July 19, 2014 at 11:35 | Permalink | Reply

      Don’t forget, that with a Colorado DL, you can only drive in Colorado, that means you would have to live there.

      • Ray
        Posted July 19, 2014 at 22:08 | Permalink

        You are correct, you must complete Colorado’s DUI program before full reinstatement. I have already talked to a Colorado DMV hearing officer. Under normal circumstances with 4 Out of State DUI’s after 5 years from their last Driving Offence; the applicant must have a Driver Breath Interlock device, SR-22 Insurance and complete Alcohol Counseling. This is normally for a period of 2 years.
        After successful completion of the program, your License will be fully reinstated and Colorado will send a Writ of Reinstatement to the National Driver’s Registry. Florida has the right to not recognize your license for driving in Florida. But even as much as they would like to be, Florida is not the DMV of the United States. All the other states fully recognize a fully reinstated Colorado Driver’s License. You just have to keep the property you own in Colorado as your new main home address for taxes, social security, etc. even if you are spending a lot of time somewhere else on “vacation”.

    • Linda
      Posted July 18, 2014 at 01:57 | Permalink | Reply

      I appreciate your taking the time to post this information and link. Thank you, also, for the follow up regarding DUI revocations.

  32. Ronald Franks
    Posted July 22, 2014 at 11:06 | Permalink | Reply

    when did the four dui your suspended for life go into effect in florida.

    • Mel
      Posted July 25, 2014 at 10:25 | Permalink | Reply

      My Florida DL were initially revoked for five years. I’m not sure of the exact date the permanent revocation passed, but about a year prior to the end of my revocation, I received a letter stating that my license were now permanently revoked because the law was proposed in 1998 and retroacted back to the date of the proposal, which I think was about two weeks before my 4th and last DUI.

  33. Ray
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 05:40 | Permalink | Reply

    A lot of people in our position have wondered what we can do about it. For the people that got their life sentence from the Judge, I don’t see much hope. Lobbying against MADD is a loser, let’s face the facts that we would not have a friend in the world in this quest. However, a lot of people who I believe can be saved are the people who received their life revocation at a later date from the DMV.
    I believe that if a law firm were to open a website and collect 60,000 signatures from Florida Registered Voters, it would be possible to have a Class Action Amendment placed on the Ballot to be voted on by Floridians. The Amendment would be designed to limit the DMV’s Administrative Suspension authority in regards to administering greater punishments than the judicial system for the same offence.
    This is America, no Americans agree with being tried twice for anything. If the Amendment is worded and advertised properly, it would be Voted in with flying colors. The DMV has about the same approval rating as congress, they would lose big time if such an Amendment was to make it to the Florida Ballot.

    • Ray
      Posted July 26, 2014 at 05:55 | Permalink | Reply

      Also, have a Secured Credit Card Donation section on the Amendment Creation Web site to get it done. A lot of people have been hurt by this, the money will flow in with the signatures.

  34. Nick
    Posted July 29, 2014 at 00:33 | Permalink | Reply

    Colorado has some brains, not like
    florida nut jobs. Plenty of nice property
    in Colorado too. Just make the move and enjoy. I did.

  35. Ray
    Posted July 29, 2014 at 15:16 | Permalink | Reply

    Don’t freak out about collecting the required electronic 60 thousand signatures from Florida Registered Voters. Placing a new proposal on a Florida Ballot is easier than what we have had to endure for a decade. We have life sentences, it’s not like we have to hurry. Once started; I’ll get the proposal placed on the immediate view list logging in to Youtube. I don’t care if it cost me 50,000 Dollars to do so, and I am not alone.

    • Ray
      Posted July 30, 2014 at 08:58 | Permalink | Reply

      I have changed my mind and not going to pursue this any longer because I have moved to Colorado and I’m happy again. For the law firms that may pursue this; One mass advertisement on Florida Facebook would get the required electronic signatures within a week at the most.

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 29, 2014 at 18:05 | Permalink | Reply

      Lets go with it keep updates and websites posted.

  36. Ray
    Posted July 30, 2014 at 08:02 | Permalink | Reply

    Nick your right, I have also already moved to Colorado Springs and have a Beautiful View of The Garden of the Gods Mountain Range. I am in the process of getting my Colorado Drivers License too. I need to forget about Florida and not worry about fighting their system any more. My life already has meaning again without Florida in it. I must admit though, it done me a lot of good to vent out years of stored rage on this website. Best wishes to everyone that is going to continue in the their fight for freedom from the Florida DMV.

  37. Mario
    Posted September 18, 2014 at 12:45 | Permalink | Reply

    I moved here to Florida, ,from Maryland on a valid driver,license, ,,well i surrender for a valid Florida license and two months later i got a letter from highwayssafety im permanently revoke for life due to my pass Maryland driving record, ,,i been sober over ten year,,last dui in 2002,,did jail tine ,,interlocking in car for three years,,,and now Florida took away and i even csnt ho back and grt mu Maryland license

    • Ray
      Posted September 18, 2014 at 19:59 | Permalink | Reply

      Your Best Bet is to contact the Maryland DMV Hearing Office by Telephone giving them your Maryland Drivers License Number and request a Reinstatement Hearing. Even if you have to jump through some more hoops in Maryland, it is nothing compared to the eternal damnation you will receive at the hands of the Florida DMV in their secondary court systems without any restrictions. Their abuse of going after people who have paid for their crimes in the Judicial System is without equal.

      • Mario
        Posted September 18, 2014 at 21:38 | Permalink

        Thank you Ray for the advice,,,my whole life is upside down now, ,lost my job ,i have two kids, ,i should of check the laws before i surrendered my VALID MARYLAND LICENSE, ,,i been trying every way to fight this, ,,tell me how its fsir that the state of Florida stop and flag my Maryland license, ,,,all i did was turn it to become a Florida residents, ,,its f##K up,,Florida not allowing me to even get back my Maryland license, ,,,im.still eligible for it and no citation on it ,,night mare is unreal

      • Ray
        Posted September 18, 2014 at 20:40 | Permalink

        Mario, My last piece of advice to you brother is DO NOT enter that Florida DMV Hardship License Program. If you do that, anyone that doesn’t like you can call the Florida DMV and say they seen you drinking and you will automatically lose your License for an additional 5 years before you can even request for a Hardship License again in Florida. That Program will have you retire in a Homeless Shelter even if you keep the Forever Breath Interlock Devices where no descent employer will ever hire you. Get back to Maryland and Fight for your livelihood in Maryland. Read this Blog and understand the destruction of the people who have entered that program.

    • Mel
      Posted September 18, 2014 at 15:08 | Permalink | Reply

      Have they changed the hardship license after five years back to no possibility again?

      • Mario
        Posted September 18, 2014 at 15:35 | Permalink

        No,,,im.in that process in.trying to get a hardship but i shouldn’t be going thru all this again, ,are they going make do interlocking again? I already did all that over ten yrars ago,,,how csn they make put interlocking back in my car when all i did was turn in a valid Maryland license in,,,no citation over ten years, ,,

      • Mel
        Posted September 18, 2014 at 19:20 | Permalink

        Two answers:
        There are no laws saying they can’t and $.

  38. Mario
    Posted September 18, 2014 at 21:49 | Permalink | Reply

    I got the revoke notice in mail on july 28,,,going on 8 weeks now,,my mental state of mind from this is beyond belief, ,,,,unreal ,,,so unreal, ,,,,,,,but people texting or talking on cell phone who kills be accident can still drive with a valid license

    • Ray
      Posted September 18, 2014 at 22:22 | Permalink | Reply

      Mario, If you’ve got the guts to raise two kids. Then you are in the fight of your life that you will win. First, Get your Family the Hell out of Florida before your depression spreads to them. Get back to Maryland which will be hard to do, but you must do it to pursue your best quick chance for a normal life. Do not get depressed and say the hell with it and drive on a permanently revoked Drivers License in Florida. It is a Felony with a standard 5 year sentence in Prison. If Maryland fails you, then you have to get to Colorado which is your last chance in the United States who will apply Colorado law to your driving record allowing you to drive again. This is what I am doing, it is not easy. You will have to do the Breath Interlock Devices for 2 years and Counseling. It’s your only chance left if Maryland fails you. It’s going to be hard as hell, but this is one time in your life that you can’t hesitate. You have to move fast before you lose your family from the stress of this Nightmare.

      • Mario
        Posted September 18, 2014 at 22:38 | Permalink

        Thank you so much for talking with me,,you must no my pain,,its to late my depression has spread among in my family, ,my life is twisted by a twisted law, ,,i have to take meds now cause of all thjs ,,panic attacks, ,,xanax to help sleep,,i worked so hard to get where im.am. at now, ,,but now swipe away in a blink of an eye
        ,cause my VALID MARYLAND LICENSE turn in to become a Florida residents, ,,THANK YOU for. Chatting with me,,i thought i was the only one in this twilight zone

  39. Ray
    Posted September 18, 2014 at 22:53 | Permalink | Reply

    My friend, you are not alone. This website done me a lot of good too when I talked to other people in the same situation. You are not alone. Now Brother, you have do what you have never been forced to do before. You have to fight to survive, we all have it in us. The main thing is that you must not fight unwinnable wars, there is no future for you now in the State of Florida, only grief and pain. You will be successful, but it’s going to be hard and take time.

  40. Ray
    Posted October 1, 2014 at 01:44 | Permalink | Reply

    This is Mr. Sammis DUI Blog, not mine. This is my last entry. Colorado is real. I had my Colorado DMV Hearing today. I have been reinstated, and they are fully aware of my lifetime permanent revocation in the State of Florida. The information I am copying next is taken directly from my reinstatement paperwork for the requirements I must now fulfill to guarantee my Drivers License. No bullshit, no guessing; straight up fact.
    (1) Proof of signing and paying for a 1 year lease for a breath interlock device in my vehicle. (I thought they were going to require me to have it for 2 years; No, the lawyers were wrong, it’s 1 year)
    (2) SR 22 Insurance for 3 years; Yes, 2 years even after the Breath Interlock device is removed. So be it.
    (3) Level 2 Driver Control DUI Counseling; As long as you are attending counseling you are allowed to drive. You will not be granted your full free and clear Drivers License until you complete the counseling. (This takes about 3 months)
    That’s it, God Bless if you have to follow the path I had to take. I had no other options.
    Thank You Mr. Sammis for this website.

    • Mel
      Posted October 2, 2014 at 23:28 | Permalink | Reply

      Wow, that was really fast. Good luck and stick to soft drinks in future.

  41. Posted October 3, 2014 at 18:50 | Permalink | Reply

    The monopoly on people lives to live in Florida CONTINUES…..

    Is my only hope move to COLORADO OR OUT OF THE COUNTRY to find freedom again ?


    I obtained a FL DL back in 1989.

    I received a permanent revocation from FL as a result of my dui that I had received in SC (South Carolina) prior to the FL DL, thus I went to court and was convicted in SC while holding the FL DL in secrecy and turned in a copy of my SC DL to keep my new FL DL and keep driving. Of course the computers did not carry national events linked together at that time so I was ok and successfully drove for the next 15 years without issues.

    Thus I was informed 15 years later that I am prosecuted in FL for filling a false application and the FL DL statue became effective against my SC dui, That actually happened prior to ownership of an FL DL.

    FL just made it as if I had done the event after I obtained the FL DL which is just not so. I was convicted in SC after the FL DL was obtained but the SC dui did not occur after obtaining the FL DL.

    I went and attended treatment thereafter to recover in 1990. I also attended AA meetings and continue to attend AA meetings in hopes to try and show there is a solution for the still suffering alcoholics to gain freedom and happiness while I follow Gods will for my life.

    Personally I admit my faults and I realize that I had a serious alcohol addiction prior to treatment and dui school etc which opened my eyes to a new way of life.
    I have sustained sobriety for 25 years without driving issues on my record.
    I also completed the SC dui course in 2004 as to try to correct my issues with SCDMV requirements in SC.

    I was also reviewed in 2004 by an certified substance abuse counselor with a positive results to be completely sober for the time I have proven and continue this sobriety currently to date Oct 2014.

    I have affidavits and personal letters stating the fact of my sobriety for the last
    25 years from an attorney and persons that have known me all of my life that know my success in sobriety.

    I am also recommended for re-licensing in SC by SC in 2004 which is current to date Oct 2014.

    I am allowed to obtain an DL in any state in the USA, with the exception of the FL legislative law that continues to destroy my livelihood and be able to work or go for groceries, hospital visits, at the veterans hospital, which I am an honorably discharged veteran, or for even the most basic needs to survive.

    My home is in foreclosure due to FL non compliance to the United States Constitution in my opinion.

    The right to work in the United States has been completely overruled by this Fl legislation thus breaking the law in my opinion and is unconstitutional with unethical practices of law by the state of FL (Florida).

    None of my events happened in FL.

    I only obtained the FL DL & returned to back to the original state SC.

    FL is acting in contradiction of SC PARDON LAW even today.

    I currently am PARDONED of all events in SC.

    The law of the PARDON of SC clearly says, The offenses are forgotten and obliterated, as a result the offenses never occurred and that I am relieved of all the legal consequences of my crime and conviction, direct and collateral. Its certainly an improper punishment for FL to use my SC convictions as violation of the FL statue on dui convictions.

    Any events that may have occurred prior to owning an Florida Drivers License would have no reflect to my abilities to drive since I did not have nor was I under the Florida Drivers License Statute on dui convictions.

    This also shows the NATIONAL DRIVERS REGISTRY to be reporting false information to the state of FL which is also a practice of unethical behavior.

    Further information on SC ( SOUTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT in stat v. Baucom, 340 SC 339, 531 S.E.2d 922 (2000)addressed the issue in effect of Pardon on dui offenses. In Baucom the defendant was convicted of driving under the influence dui, second offense.

    Defendant appealed in that his prior dui offense was Pardoned and argued that he should only have been charges of dui FIRST offense. The court of appeals affirmed but on writ of certiorari, the Supreme Court overruled the court of appeals and held that PARDONED convictions could not be used to enhance current offense.

    The South Carolina Court of Appeals based its holding on the theory that a Pardon involves forgiveness, but not forgetfulness. In other words, a Pardon forgives the punishment for a crime but does not forget or obliterate the act of the commission of the crime. The SUPREME COURT DISAGREED.

    The South Carolina (SC) Supreme Court held that the Pardon Statue relieves the convict of “all the legal consequences of his crime and conviction, direct and collateral, all civil rights are restored.

    As far as SC South Carolina LAW is concerned, the effect of a Pardon is that THE OFFENSES NEVER OCCURRED, effective July 31st 2013 and bearing approval of the SC South Carolina Board of Probation, Parole and Pardon Services on August 2, 2013 Copies available and have been provided to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED), the SC Clerk of Court of Richland County Columbia SC, the SC Department of Motor Vehicles, to update the records, and so forth I have proven my innocence from further unethical behavior by the state of Florida statue an dui.
    Based upon all of my evidence of proven sobriety, following all of the requirements to be reinstated and have been reinstated by the (SCDMV) South Carolina Department of Motor Vehicles with a letter proving so, all events that ever occurred in South Carolina have been PARDONED, again relieving “all the legal consequences of my crime and conviction, direct and collateral, all civil rights are restored.

    Florida has no reason to post such inaccurate information, nor does the National drivers registry, since every event is absolved from record.

    Since this is the case, I respectfully request that Florida remove the notation on the National Drivers Registry that show my Drivers is permanently revoked.

    This will in effect correct the wrongful doing of (FLHSMV) Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles with further UN-due continued wrongful punishment of an innocent person by FL statue on dui.

    Please with your permission place this information of your website so that others could possibly find an opportunity to regain their life and learn there is a way without alcohol for those that still suffer from addiction of alcohol NO MATTER WHAT ISSUES OF LIFE ARE AT HAND. I am very grateful to be sober for the last 25 years.
    Thank you for having this blog https://tampaduiattorney.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/floridas-rules-for-4th-dui-hardship-business-purpose-only-employment-purpose-only-permit/

    I look forward to hearing from you at Sammis Law and your response by email I provided on your site.

    I will release full information to you personally at that time of contact and request.

    Warmest Regards,


    • Mario
      Posted October 3, 2014 at 19:44 | Permalink | Reply

      I feel your pain,,i been dealing with deep depression cause what Florida did to me.i moved to Florida a year ago on a valid Maryland DL,,my last dui was on2002,in Maryland, ,anyway i surrendered my Maryland DL for a Florida DL due of residents, ,after driving on a valid Florida DL FOR Two months, ,i got a letter in the mail onjJuly 28,2014 saying im revoke for life, ,,i turn in a VALID MARYLAND DL ,,and now there saying i can’t get that back, ,,im a single dad of two teenagers, ,i lost my job,,behind in bills, ,im now just got food stamps, ,and collecting unemployment, ,my life is ruin, ,up side down,depression has got me a difference person

    • Ray
      Posted October 7, 2014 at 18:48 | Permalink | Reply

      I said I was done with this website but there are to many professional people getting destroyed by Florida to not try to help answer an intelligent comment. The answer is YES. Colorado or Overseas. Hurry and start your process in Colorado, MADD is already lobbying in Colorado to close the last loophole in the United States by trying to change Colorado law. Get Grandfathered in before they are successful, and they will be successful. Stay away from Denver when you apply, to many DMV politicians that will give you the maximum or not reinstate you at all. Colorado Springs is as close as you want to get to Denver for success. The smaller the Colorado town, the more laid back their DMV is.

  42. Posted October 8, 2014 at 09:04 | Permalink | Reply

    Ray I appreciate your comment and what I am working toward at the moment is since I did get all my DUI PARDONED in the state of conviction, I have finally found that it is the responsibility of the Dept Motor vehicles to update the POINTERS TO THE NATIONAL DRIVERS REGISTRY, which is what is actually doing the reports to FLORIDA, thus they can enforce their bureaucracy against innocent PARDONED citizens. I am writing a letter to my attorney today to have him send a letter of notice to this effect the DMV they must remove the POINTERS TO THE NATIONAL DIVERS REGISTRY, to stop continued unethical punishment, and unlawful punishment by the DMV, since all DUI are PARDONED. THEIR IS PRIVACY LAWS TOO THAT PROTECT YOU ALSO FROM ANY OF THE EVENTS BEING POSTED ONLINE OR ANYWHERE PUBLIC INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE. THE CLERK OF COURT MUST ALSO BE NOTIFIED IN WRITING CERTIFIED RETURN RECEIPT MAIL REQUESTING THE REMOVAL OF SUCH RECORDS ALSO.




    DL# 11111111
    SS# 111-11-1111
    DOB: 11-11-1111
    PHONE # 111-111-1111


    To Whom It may concern:
    YOUR STATE Department of Motor Vehicles
    Register of Deeds / Clerk of Court / Records

    It has come to my attention since my pardon issued on DATE OF PARDON, continued listing of any public records is non-compliant with current privacy of my prior criminal records, or any records of evidence pursuant to the dispositions of any of my cases in the state of YOUR STATE are hereby requested to be REMOVED, VACATED, DELETED, DESTROYED, FROM PUBLIC RECORDS, including any pointers to THE NATIONAL DRIVERS REGISTRY which is PUBLIC information, at this time, pursuant YOUR County Judicial Circuit Public Index.

    A copy of my YOUR STATE Pardon Number 11111 by LAW has been provided to the YOUR County Clerk of Court, YOUR LAW ENFORCEMENT DIVISION, and YOUR STATE Department of transportation to remove pointers concerning my old history of records to the National Drivers Registry, and or any offices concerning the updating of records including the Public Records Index, for privacy of my information on Pardoned events, that so stated in my YOUR STATE Pardon The offenses are forgotten and obliterated, as a result the offenses never occurred and that I am relieved of all the legal consequences of my crime and conviction, direct and collateral, it is so ORDERED that said YOUR NAME BE PARDONED, effective DATE OF PARDON and by this action, is ABSOLVED from ALL LEGAL CONSEQUENCES of ALL the crimes of YOUR County YOUR STATE on record prior to pardon date DATE PARDON.


    Warmest Regards,

    Signature: _____________________

    • Ray
      Posted October 8, 2014 at 16:11 | Permalink | Reply

      I wish you the best of luck. Unfortunately with my experience in Florida is that you have no chance whatsoever. Florida Law clearly has been written so that there shall never be an expungement or a pardon for any DUI conviction in the State of Florida. The Florida DMV will not recognize such actions from other States because they are enforcing Florida law on all Florida drivers license holders regardless of their past residences or adjudications. The Florida DMV has the legal right to do this and they are MADDly laughing about it.

      • Ray
        Posted October 8, 2014 at 17:16 | Permalink

        I know your angry. From 2004 until 2010, I had to work in Baghdad Iraq. From 2010 until early 2014, I had to work in Bagram Afghanistan. Hellholes that don’t require drivers licenses. If it was not for Colorado, my next tour would be at McMurdo Station in Antarctica. Unless if you wish to go through what I already had to do for the next decade, get your ass to Colorado. I have had years to dwell on other options. There aren’t any left for a normal life except Colorado.

  43. Mario
    Posted October 12, 2014 at 18:23 | Permalink | Reply

    Florida is a joke, ,,if u murdered someone in another state a week.ago.and then come to Florida and kill someone and get caught, ,Florida wouldn’t charge u the other murder from the other state, ,,but if u have dui over 20 years old and from another state and u come to Florida live they hold the other dui from other state and over 20 years old against you, ,,i will not go thru the SSS hardship programs, ,That’s bullshit, ,,i did my time, pay my dues ,,had intrrlock for three years ,,been sober over ten years, ,,,fucking turn in a valid Maryland license and the fuckers revoke me for life cause of Md record, ,and they treat liked shit over the phone, ,they make me feel worthless, ,im done and angry ,,going back to Maryland where im eligible for my DL,,,,i take a chance driving without a DL. In MD ,instead of here where its a felony, ,completely wrong, ,unjustified, ,,,to ruin good people lives, ,hell im on unemployment, ,food stamps, ,and got Medicaid for me and my kids cause flordia turn my life ip side down

    • Ray
      Posted October 14, 2014 at 02:55 | Permalink | Reply

      Do what you have to do. Best Wishes.

      • Ray
        Posted October 14, 2014 at 03:16 | Permalink

        Get up and win, again! Find the old you. Do it!

  44. bill
    Posted November 25, 2014 at 18:44 | Permalink | Reply

    I to have 4 dui’s the last one in 1997 I have been sober for 13 years and have had no other offenses. The problem is the state of Tennessee has given me a clear license I have no traffic tickets or DUI’s. Florida is not happy about it and will not use my clean record of nearly 4 years to apply for hardship wanting to wait another 5 years. The state of Tennessee is well aware of my driving record and I did not lie to get the license. This ruling is not about road safety but a failure program to keep you in the system and money Florida has the most corrupt and greedy legal system in the nation.

  45. bill
    Posted November 25, 2014 at 18:48 | Permalink | Reply

    When was the 75 year DUI on your record go into effect what year? That is where a petition is needed.

  46. Ray
    Posted November 26, 2014 at 22:01 | Permalink | Reply

    Update of Information for anyone getting their Normal Life back in the State of Colorado after receiving a 77 Year Lifetime Driver’s License Suspension in the State of Florida. I have already had my Driving Privileges Fully Reinstated in the State of Colorado by following the Requirements of the Colorado DMV Hearing Officer. Today I was given my next step of paperwork to complete from my Colorado DUI Driver Control Counselor. It is from the Colorado Department of Corrections, The Interstate Compact Department. It requires that I go down to the local Police Station and get fingerprinted along with some other requirements. The name of the form and additional requirements are listed below;
    Notification of Out-Of-State Offender Placement (C.R.S. 17-27.1-101)
    (1)Release of Information Waiver Form
    (2)Registration Form
    (3)Court Documents
    (4)Client Questionnaire
    After Completion of this form it will be sent to the State of Florida as a member of the Driver Compact Agreement. By law of the Driver Compact, Florida has no choice but to honor the Reinstatement authority of the State of Colorado and Fully Remove their Driver Suspension in both the State of Florida and in the National Driver’s Registry Nationwide. Your Colorado Driver’s License will not only be valid in the other 49 States, it will also be Valid in the State of Florida. Florida must abide by the law of the Compact Agreement or Lose their Membership.
    If you decide to move from the State of Colorado to any of the other 48 states besides Florida, you can also receive that States Driver’s License with no problems whatsoever. However, even though your Colorado driver’s License or other newly moved to States Driver’s License are fully valid to drive in the State of Florida you must never move back to Florida. If you move to the State of Florida and apply for a Florida License again with your new Valid License, they will Re Suspend your newly issued Florida License for a 77 year life term and you will be right back where you started.
    I will keep you posted as my Paperwork clears if I run into anything else, Take care.

    • Ray
      Posted January 24, 2015 at 01:28 | Permalink | Reply

      Brian, Here is the full procedure to correctly get your driver’s license reinstated in Colorado after a lifetime revocation in Florida. Colorado is the only state left that will do this and MADD is lobbying hard to change Colorado law and sink the last lifeboat in the United States for people like us.
      (1) Go and get a Colorado ID Card, Do not apply for a Colorado Driver’s License. You must be a resident of Colorado for 1 year before you will be granted a DMV Hearing.
      (2) After 1 year has passed on the issue of your Colorado ID card, go and to the DMV and request a Driver’s license, you will be denied a license because of your suspension in Florida. They will give you a “Colorado Driver’s License not issued” document that has your Florida information and a new Colorado Pin Number.
      (3) Using this Document’s Pin Number, you have 60 days to request a DMV reinstatement hearing where Colorado applies Colorado Law to your Driver’s License as if all of your offences occurred in Colorado, the same as Florida automatically adjudicates as if all your offences happened in Florida on a Florida Driver’s License. You must contact the Driver Control office in Denver, the phone number given on the Document is useless. I looked them up on the internet and found a different phone number and got through to a human instead of a machine. I was then able schedule my hearing in the Colorado city which I live.
      (4) At the hearing there are two major concerns; how long have you been without a License and do you owe any money in any other states. If you owe any money on fines in any other states, you will be denied. The maximum driver’s license suspension in Colorado for DUI is 2 years. I don’t care if it’s your tenth DUI, it is still a Misdemeanor with a 2 year Driver’s License suspension in Colorado. Colorado gives multiple offenders lengthy jail terms for DUI, but after you serve your time they give you your License back. Unlike Florida who has even longer jail sentences and you never get your license back.
      (5) After the hearing, you will be given a list of requirements that you must mail in proof of completion to the Driver Control office in Denver. They will mail you back a confirmation letter that you will receive in 2 weeks to take to your closest Colorado DMV office to be issued a Colorado Class C Restricted License for 1 year. A Class C License requires you to have a breath interlock device in your vehicle for one year.
      (6) The requirements are as follows to get issued your license: You have to go to a Smart Start distributer and have them install a Breath interlock in your car. You have to purchase SR-22 Insurance and will be required to have it for 3 years. You will have to show proof of enrollment in Track A Level 2 Driver Control Education and therapy. This is 12 two hour visits once a week for the education and 21 two hour visits once a week for the therapy. You must then take both the Colorado written and driving test in your car with the breath interlock device and pass both test to receive your license.
      (7) Study, Study, and then Study some more for the written and driving test. They are hard as Hell. The written test ask you everything; speed limits on mountain roads on ice, obscure highway line colors on the road and what they mean, how much a fat kid must weigh before he can be let out of a child restraint and the kids age, etc. I’m not joking. The Driving test is equally as hard. You are graded on all of your body motions while driving. Two hands on the steering wheel at all times. Your hands at 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock in certain situations and 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock in others. Looking over your shoulder before you change lanes, Length of distance and time on turn signals, Complete stops and I mean complete 3 second stops at stop signs, etc.
      (8) Finally; you have the interstate compact paperwork as the final step which I posted information on as the topic of all these replies. I was ready to go all in on it when I first posted the comment. Since then I have decided to play it safe in case if there is any more bullshit from Florida and it is not as easy as I have been told. I don’t trust Florida, who does? I have decided to wait until all of my requirements have been completed. When my Colorado license is changed from a Colorado Class C Restricted to a Colorado Class R Regular license after my one year time limit is up, then I will submit the interstate compact paperwork that involves Florida. I have just been burned too bad to know that when you start taking on Florida in a fight, you better go in strong. I hope this information helps you out. But don’t wait too long to get started in Colorado. The loophole will close one day, besides all the jobs in Colorado pay 3 times as much money as Florida. Colorado is not a low paying, right to work tourist state. Good Luck!

    • Brian
      Posted January 15, 2015 at 11:11 | Permalink | Reply

      Hello Ray
      can you please email me ar berrtymtn@gmail.com I need sone help please. It sounds like you can steer me in the rite direction

    • Brian
      Posted January 15, 2015 at 11:22 | Permalink | Reply

      Thats berrymtn@gmail.com please, I have some questions about being in the same “boat”

    • Linda
      Posted December 28, 2014 at 20:42 | Permalink | Reply

      I’m curious…if you get granted the permission to be in the Florida hardship program through Administrative review, do you forever remain in the hardship program, or do you eventually earn a “real” driver’s license?

      • Posted January 1, 2015 at 11:37 | Permalink


      • Gerbelg
        Posted January 1, 2015 at 12:15 | Permalink

        After 5 years according to your obedience. It is a huge process after your hearing just to get to start driving with a hardship license. And save you some money…probably around $3,000.00. And once a month you will be supervised. Hope this help.

    • Anonymous
      Posted December 20, 2014 at 14:10 | Permalink | Reply

      Hi Ray. I am lifetime revocation FL DL. I currently live in HI, but am considering relocation due to DL issue. Is there a way that I can contact you for more CO information? Thank you.

      • Bob
        Posted December 22, 2014 at 23:16 | Permalink

        Yea. I would like to also hear from someone that has gone through this.

  47. John Heller
    Posted November 29, 2014 at 03:07 | Permalink | Reply

    Howdy folks. I’m in recovery from alcoholism. I live in Florida and I had 2 DUIS in 5 years I was sober and on the 5 year revocation driving with a special supervision hardship license. I drank for one week and got another DUI this time my third conviction which was a felony with a ten year revocation. I have now been sober for 3 years and can honestly say I never ever will drink again because it will kill me spiritually and physically. I am a skilled tradesman in hvac and also a 2 year electricians s apprentice. The problem is without the ability to drive I am only being compensated with a fraction of what I have the ability to earn with my experience. Does it make sense for me to move to Colorado? I don’t think finding a job would be difficult for me. I would be elligable to get back on the supervision services program this coming August in Florida but I feel this requirements are crazy. They already took all my rights I can not vote own a weapon etc.. I did possibly endanger people driving but no one was ever actually hurt I feel the punishment does not fit the crime. I just want my rights and my life back. I am a good honest person who suffered from a disease and now I have it arrested through treatmemt. Thanks folks

  48. Tim
    Posted December 11, 2014 at 12:20 | Permalink | Reply

    Bill are you permanently revoked in Florida because of four DUIs? And if so when were you able to obtain A Tennesse license.

    • bill
      Posted December 14, 2014 at 20:20 | Permalink | Reply

      Tim, yes because of the 4 DUI’s 15 years ago. I received my Tennessee license back in 2011 and nothing was hid from them.

      • bob
        Posted December 23, 2014 at 22:29 | Permalink

        Didn’t it show up on the NDR ?

    • Tom
      Posted January 23, 2015 at 12:44 | Permalink | Reply

      Bill, I now live in Massachusetts because I had 4 DUI’s in Florida. One in 1979, Two in 1991, and one in 2008. After doing 4 years in Florida prison I left for Mass. Mass say’s Florida will report me to NDR until 2017. Would I be able to go to Tennessee and obtain a license? wouldn’t I need proof of residence,,etc..Just wondering.

  49. Robert
    Posted December 17, 2014 at 07:33 | Permalink | Reply

    Hi i got a hearing from DMV in florida , and was granted. but when i went to Tradffic school for interview i was asked if i drank any alcohol , i said no, since my last dui , then i said maybe drank a wine about 2 or 3 yrs ago, and they denied me. now have to go for appeal.but come to find out i did not drink wine it was home made non alcohol sangria, and it was 5 yrs ago .. what should i do get a lawyer plz help thanks

    • Mel
      Posted December 22, 2014 at 20:30 | Permalink | Reply

      You don’t sound sure about when you drank the homemade sangria, maybe it was longer ago than you remember, check with your friends. Lawyers are not allowed to attend hardship hearings, but “credible” witnesses may or may not be able to speak for you at your appeal, you will have to check on that. Let us know the answer.

      • Ray
        Posted January 2, 2015 at 05:52 | Permalink

        A Lawyer won’t help, you’ve been checked off by the Florida DMV as drinking an alcoholic beverage within the last 5 years. Florida law has been written so that another 5 years must pass before you are eligible to apply again for another hardship license. It’s insane, a Lawyer can do nothing under such mandates of rigid law.

  50. bill
    Posted December 22, 2014 at 20:57 | Permalink | Reply

    How interesting some states to give illegals a driver license. To give people a right to drive that the system has no idea of what kind of past record they have? What about reading street signs that are in English I wonder how simplified their written drivers test will be? They can break the our laws and drive yet the system will not let me come back as a sober productive person back into society.

    • Mel
      Posted December 23, 2014 at 13:17 | Permalink | Reply

      How can an illegal go into a drivers license office and get approved for a valid drivers license when American citizens have to come up with documentation of proof of birth in the USA, every marriage they’ve had, every divorce, widow(er), residency and review of their driving record from forever and forward? What this tells me is that although my fathers, my brothers and my forefathers fought in every war since this country was incepted for our rights and the preservation of the constitution of the united states….our politicians, who some of them never fought in any war are more concerned with the illegals being able to work and conduct their business than they are of US citizens who’s fathers and brothers fought and died to preserve the ability to be a politician in a free county and allow a group like “you know who” to push for multiple punishment for the same crime. I did jail time for my first DUI when I was 21 years old and pregnant. (Don’t freak, wasn’t pregnant when I got caught) and I’m still being punished for something I did in 1975.

  51. bill
    Posted December 23, 2014 at 20:19 | Permalink | Reply

    Another thing is I do not know that anybody is aware of but if you are able to get a hardship license. You will not be able to drive yourself to an AA meeting or church. You are required to stay sober on this program but not get to what program helps you stay sober. That is the mentality of the DMV or who ever came up with this program who has a mind of a box of rocks. Don’t they realize that in many work places of employment is where a lot of drinking and drugging goes on.

  52. bill
    Posted December 23, 2014 at 20:34 | Permalink | Reply

    Protesting in New York does not rely with the problems with the police but the system itself. With the death of the man selling cigarettes relates to what many of us here comment on. When the system abuses its power with nickel and dime offenses and or past offenses haunting people for the rest of our lives. The problem with these protesters and some of us is we are not politically involved. We are so over due in many states for justice reform it is not a race issue or a police issue but coming from the top.

    • Ray
      Posted January 23, 2015 at 13:38 | Permalink | Reply

      What you stated is the most accurate portrayal of why people are so angry. I am 46 years old. I have a left ventricle blockage in my heart and wear eye glasses with the thickness of magnifying glasses. I have no felonies and have never committed a violent crime. I also have a life sentence from Florida. The young, reckless kid I was when I was 21 years old has been gone a very long time now. Now I am focusing on nothing else except survival in my elderly years when I retire. I agree with a 10 year drivers license suspension for multiple offenders because 10 years is a very long time. In my case, I went from a 6 month suspension to life suspension after misdemeanor court from the Florida DMV. A “life sentence” for a misdemeanor traffic violation. The statue of limitations for a misdemeanor is supposed to be 7 years, Florida found a way around the constitution with the DMV. I would have went to trial by jury instead of accepting the plea bargain as a “first time offender” if I would have known this about this injustice.

      • Posted January 23, 2015 at 22:15 | Permalink

        yea I’m 51 years old and am still under a life sentence from the prison state of Florida for my actions when I was 18, 20, and 28 years old. Haven’t touched a drop of alcohol for over 14 years.

  53. chase
    Posted January 1, 2015 at 03:05 | Permalink | Reply

    I was born and raised in Florida. i have 3 dui’s in Florida and 2 in Georgia. on my last dui conviction in Florida i was told that it was my 4th offense and my license would be suspended for life. this was in 2005. i did 18 months in prison for the “4th” offense
    When i was released i moved 3 days after to North Dakota. i met my wife here and we have 3 children together. we bought a house here in 2011 and ive been employed at the same company since 2006.
    I would like to one day get my license back but i will not move to Florida just so i can have a valid drivers license.
    I tried getting a ND license but cant since Florida has a hold on them.it seems stupid to me that a person that moved to make a better life for themselves cant eventually get some kind of license in the state they live instead of saying i have to move back to Florida so i can jump through all their hoops and throw away everything ive worked for here.

    • Mel
      Posted January 1, 2015 at 23:30 | Permalink | Reply

      Chase: See “Dee’s” post on this blog.

    • bill
      Posted January 1, 2015 at 19:45 | Permalink | Reply

      I also have 4 DUI’S in Florida and it has been 15 years since my last offense, I also have a license in another state but will not get into that on this comment. I have went to school here in Florida my children are here and my grand-children I know where you coming from about throwing everything away but that is what the Florida system wants is for a person to lose hope and re-offend again. The problem here is we can not run away from it Florida is way over due for justice reform like other states have done. The 75 years DUI record is where changes must be made and it makes sense. The second issue is this 4th offense DUI program which the system thought we would be knocking down the door to do it. They are not making the money they had hoped for which leads to more people driving without a license. It does not allow the offender to drive himself to programs to help us stay sober and basically a second style probation which I have already done my time the program is all about profit not safe roads. Look up justice reform for Florida there is a bill on it on Rick Scott’s desk but it is always doing the same thing expecting different results.

      • chase
        Posted January 2, 2015 at 02:56 | Permalink

        I hope that common sense legislation will be signed into law. Florida legislators worry about generating income over what is best for their constituents. I left Florida because i knew it was a trapped system. Do you have a bill # on that so i can look into it more?

  54. bill
    Posted January 2, 2015 at 21:37 | Permalink | Reply

    Chase go FAMM.ORG the bill was S.B 360 it was mostly for drug charges but is a start. We need to offer this web site blog to them and start stating the issues we are going thru by contacting them. Look at the interesting facts on how much tax payers are spending on incarcerating people in this state. Check the rate of incarcerating people in Florida compared to other states. Texas, N.C including Georgia and S.C. have gone to justice reform because of ballooning cost of resources.

  55. Mel
    Posted February 17, 2015 at 15:32 | Permalink | Reply

    My license were revoked for five years by a court of law, the lifetime revoke was proposed just prior to my last DUI, but before the five years revocation passed, the lifetime revoke was adopted into law and retroacted back to the date the law was proposed. Does this mean that If I was convicted in a court of law for another type of crime not related to driving and sentenced to prison and a law increasing the penalty for that crime was proposed prior to my offense and later passed, would my prison sentence then be increased to comply with the new law?

  56. Ray
    Posted February 18, 2015 at 20:01 | Permalink | Reply

    This is the beginning of the end of the Colorado loophole to get your license back in Colorado. October 15 of this year, the Governor will sign in new legislation changing the Colorado DUI laws. It does not effect the loophole yet but now that they have started changing the DUI laws, they will never stop changing them. MADD is screaming over Colorado’s DUI laws and are lobbying all of these new changes in as fast as they can.


    • bill
      Posted February 18, 2015 at 20:23 | Permalink | Reply

      Why isn’t MADD screaming about these sports bars with their daily drink specials. Magazines and radio stations that advertise events and drinking event specials. It is like one hand washes the other do they really believe people will just have two drinks at these events. Florida is like oh yea we will just keep making money. What really upsets me is MADD knows nothing about alcoholism and does not care about what it takes to stay sober. What they have really created is a political money maker.

    • bill
      Posted February 19, 2015 at 20:07 | Permalink | Reply

      Like I have commented before we can not run all over the country. I still believe Florida can not attain it’s draconian legal system when it is bursting at the seams. No common sense approach is not working in other states and they are making changes in justice reform. Why put a burden on a person who wants a chance to become a productive citizen back into society what logic is the system to make a profit on that but greed.

    • Ray
      Posted February 18, 2015 at 20:14 | Permalink | Reply

      When you pick the link above you have to scroll down and look in the bottom left hand corner to read the new Colorado 2015 Proposals that will be voted on in October. The Midterm elections when no one showed up and voted has consequences. Colorado is on its way to become a Police State like other Red States are.

    • chase
      Posted July 4, 2015 at 11:43 | Permalink | Reply

      Could you send me an email at ccannady@live.com ,I have a hearing coming up soon. I have a few questions. Hope to hear from you soon.

  57. bill
    Posted February 19, 2015 at 20:36 | Permalink | Reply

    Here is proposal for this DUI program.If the state of Florida can come up with money to keep people in prison that means the tax payer. Then why not tax payer money to keep people out. For one reform the 75 year law of a DUI record. Number two put a specialty tag one that will reflect at night that you can be stopped anytime because of this tag. If you are truly sober you have nothing to worry about. If Florida is concerned about road safety the tag should not have a special cost. Breath machines should be run by the state not for private profit payed for by the tax payer and they would not complain and any other sobriety test. For one most offenders are unemployed and indigent nearly all have done their time and sentences. The new 4th DUI program is a form of double jeopardy for the state to get us to pay what we have already paid. The idiot who came up with a just going back and forth to work will keep you from having a drink needs a drug test themselves. If Florida can spend millions to keep people incarcerated they can spend something to keep people out.

    • Ray
      Posted February 20, 2015 at 00:21 | Permalink | Reply

      Bill; If you pick the link I posted above, you will see where one lone fruitcake was busted for his 12th DUI in Colorado in the articles on the left in the link. He is MADD’s new poster child for changing Colorado law. This time they are going to win. It’s what they do, they pick out one person with mental illness and use them to punish millions of people forever. Colorado law is about to change adding Felonies to DUI. It’s the beginning of the end for other people who are trying to get their lives back. People had better hurry to Colorado and start their processes. I am already grandfathered in; unless MADD finds a way to change that to in the future, screwing people who have already got their licenses back by completing the programs required of them.

      • bill
        Posted February 20, 2015 at 09:53 | Permalink

        Ray I am serious this system will not be able to afford the incarceration rate it keeps building. Look at the homeless rate in this nation and that is in part due to the way the legal system operates. The rate of people staying sober and getting sober has gone way down because of this nations legal system. The big book states clearly that we should come back as productive citizens. Much has changed since the time of Bill Wilson even with obtaining employment has radically changed since his time.

      • Mel
        Posted February 20, 2015 at 12:08 | Permalink

        Ray, they will go back and re-revoke peoples license in Colorado who had already got them back, it’s what they did in Florida, even to people that had already moved to other states.

      • Brian B
        Posted February 20, 2015 at 12:33 | Permalink

        I have been in the program since 1998.
        I have been living in North Carolina for 10 years now.
        I got a clean and unrestricted DL when I moved to North Carolina. I did not lie or falsely answer any questions on the NC DL application. I have however continued to go back to Florida every quarter for the 55 dollar etc. visit, including a once a year piss test, DL record check and background check. I have been sober since June 8th 1993. I have outlasted 2 Florida Special supervision offices. I am currently going to the “panhandle” office. My last visit this past Tuesday we talked about this very issue. “She” suggested not returning to see her and I would probably be okay until I tried to renew my NC DL or got a ticket driving in FL. I have talked to multiple Lawyers in the past and they have all come to the same conclusion that if I come to Fl, obtain a Business purpose license again they will take me to a Administrative hearing and try to be released from the program. IE. only if I get a Florida DL. I did have one Lawyer in the past offer that if I give him 10K because he played Golf with the Governor on Sundays, but there was no guarantee either way. ETC, ETC. ETC. I am willing to put at least 10k in the pot for a Legal teem to pursue this issue as long as my Name is “up front” etc.
        Red taped to Florida

      • Ray
        Posted February 22, 2015 at 18:06 | Permalink

        To Brian B; My lawyers have told me that the absolute worst possible move I can make would be to obtain another Florida Drivers License in any circumstances. My Florida License is already suspended. I was told to leave it that way now that I have a Colorado license, who is fully aware of my past in Florida. Nothing good can come out of getting a modern Florida license giving them a new tool they can use against me by ordering a new suspension. My advise for you would be to leave the Florida program altogether. If Florida takes any actions against you, then request a DMV hearing in your own state explaining that you have no new charges that they already didn’t know about from years ago. They should reinstate you with no problems if there are no new Florida criminal charges.

  58. Mel
    Posted February 20, 2015 at 19:09 | Permalink | Reply

    LOL, that’s funny, but I don’t think that will happen, but what I do think will happen to some that are involved in pushing for all of this, will have a son, daughter, nephew….etc. That will be in college, at great expense, looking forward to a promising career who will party a little too much a few too many times and who’s potential career and life will be ruined by it.

  59. bill
    Posted February 20, 2015 at 20:16 | Permalink | Reply

    I would like to here from Sammis to any new changes in the works. About how many people or percentage is driving on a suspended license? What is the rate of incarceration for traffic offenses not homicide related? What are lawyers doing and what is going on with justice reform? Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? I know marijuana is getting a lot of attention including help from Morgan & Morgan I see a lot of lawyers supporting Normal. Mel and Ray we are just spinning our wheels here just venting. Lately it has been just the three of us and nothing coming from the firm or someone else who is a little more connected?

    • Posted February 23, 2015 at 09:49 | Permalink | Reply

      I’m not aware of any new changes in the works. I’m a member of the NORML National Legal Committee, an organization of 600+ attorneys that fight for the reform of marijuana laws. I am not aware of any organization to fight for the reform of the driver license rules in Florida as it relates to prior DUI convictions. I spend my time fighting DUI cases and trying to keep the person from being convicted in the first place. Perhaps someone should start an organization to reform the law in this area as well.

  60. bill
    Posted February 22, 2015 at 19:51 | Permalink | Reply

    Brian B I to have a out of state drivers license in Tennessee that is motorcycle endorsed and I did not hold anything back on my Florida record. I came back to Florida over a year ago because of family went to Tallahassee DMV and was told I would have to go another hearing. Also was told they know about the Tennessee license and they are not happy about it. They refuse to use my clean driving record in Tennessee no tickets no DUI’s 13 years sober and 1997 was the last offense. They can test my nails, hair and blood and they will not find nothing. I can not take a chance to give up my license up there never could trust the Florida legal system until there is some kind of justice reform here. Like I told Mel the justice system here is bursting at the seams they are not making a lot money from this program. You can not drive yourself to church or AA and is way to expensive especially for people who have already done their time for their DUI’S and have very little success of getting a job. Even if you are on house arrest for far worst crimes then a DUI you are allowed time for shopping, church and substance abuse programs. They know nothing about alcoholism the worst thing is to keep us from becoming productive citizens back into society. Some of us are proof we can come back from hell just give us a little room to grow.

    • Posted February 23, 2015 at 06:37 | Permalink | Reply

      So when you went to Tennessee to get a license did they just give you one or did you have to jump through a bunch of hoops. Did you have to get a lawyer? I’m just wondering if Colorado isn’t the only place to get a DL after permanent rev from Florida.

      • bill
        Posted February 23, 2015 at 19:28 | Permalink

        eph445 there was a lot of political stuff the clerk of court there was a real person not like the Godless hard ass officials here in Florida. Very few people have gotten this opportunity. Some parts of Tennessee they just do not throw away the key and that is it some places of employment they only back 7 years on your record here they go back a 100 years if they can. I Have over a 20 year old pot charge and have been turned away from McDonald’s in Florida . In Tennessee I never been turned away from a job because of the past. This is what I have been telling Ray and Mel Florida can not afford the legal system as they want it to be they will not tell the public how much it is costing them. Florida is second in illegals that are burdening the legal system and welfare system with 20 million more at the front door. Even though I do not agree with the tactics like I seen in Ferguson and New York people of all colors and ages have had enough of this legal system that incarcerates more people then anywhere else in the world. Florida is only going to hold for so long no matter what Scott says Florida has some serious debt has been mismanaged for to long.

      • Ray
        Posted February 24, 2015 at 16:39 | Permalink

        A total of 685,489 drivers in Florida had their licenses suspended in just one fiscal year that ended in June of 2013. Its creating mass poverty and holding people down while producing career criminals out of non violent offenders. Its projected if Florida stays on its current path, an average of a million people a year will be suspended by 2020 while millions of people already cannot legally drive in Florida. They are going to crush their lower classes into a life of crime and poverty that the State cannot handle without immediate justice reform. Florida’s “war on crime” for the sole purpose of unlimited revenue for state funding is going to blow up in their face. Golf Courses and Prisons are Florida’s only future for economic growth.

      • Ray
        Posted February 23, 2015 at 18:40 | Permalink

        Bill; You are a very lucky man to have a Tennessee License. The law has changed there since you have been issued a Tennessee License. My first stop 3 years ago in an attempt to get a license was in Clarksville Tennessee. I was denied immediately with no hope for a DMV hearing to assist me. My next attempts were in Wisconsin and Michigan with the same results as they have also changed their laws. Never risk your Tennessee license by obtaining another Florida License in any circumstances. Tennessee will not re issue now with a new Florida suspension in modern times.

      • Ray
        Posted February 23, 2015 at 19:00 | Permalink

        eph445; Colorado is all that is left. I just missed the window in Wisconsin before it closed as they were the last one left to hold out before new changes in their laws took effect. Colorado finally saved me, I have searched everywhere.

      • Brian B
        Posted February 23, 2015 at 19:12 | Permalink

        Even tho I have had a clean NC DL for 10 years I still have to go back to FL quarterly for the rest of my life or Ill have my name broadcasted across the countries DMV registries saying my FL license has been revoked even tho it has been expired for the past 10 years.

  61. Dan
    Posted February 23, 2015 at 11:25 | Permalink | Reply

    Washington State issued me A license. Twelve years without in Florida. As long as there had been 10 years with no offense.They don’t look at NDR.They look at a different one American Automobile Association ?I took care of everything in Florida but did not wan to pursue the Monthly flights for Supervision. God Bless my life is Restored. Now if I was to move to California. Florida will take my License.

  62. Mel
    Posted February 23, 2015 at 17:50 | Permalink | Reply

    I have considered writing a petition to the Florida Governor on the website Change.org however, someone with much better writing skills and knowledge of the law than myself should do it. If you’re not familiar with the site, it goes to the inbox of all members of the Change.org site, country wide and gives the receiver’s opportunity to post it to their friends on Facebook and other social sites requesting their signatures and opinions.

  63. bill
    Posted February 24, 2015 at 19:28 | Permalink | Reply

    Mel or Ray e-mail me woehlecker@yahoo.com

    • Ray
      Posted February 24, 2015 at 23:38 | Permalink | Reply

      I replied brother, what’s the plan?

  64. Gary
    Posted March 11, 2015 at 10:33 | Permalink | Reply

    Thank you all for your comments here! I received my Florida 4th in 1995. I have not had a license for a very long time. I currently am in the process of the new program to get my hardship license. I have been clean & sober for 9 years! I had to attend Level II DUI school for $420. I then took my certificate to a state hearing which was $12 and was approved. I was also required to see a counselor about my drinking, this is a standard requirement after completing the class. The counselor said he didn’t know what to do with me. I have been clean & sober 9 years! As a state standard I am still required to see him for a minimum of 4 sessions at $100 each. He said the DUI school would not accept anything less. He is used to seeing people who’s last DUI was less than 6 months ago. A complete waste of my time and money but there’s not other choice if I want to drive. I submitted all the paperwork back to the DUI school for the supervision program three weeks ago and have not heard anything back yet. Just trying to be patient. It has been a hard life the last 23 years with out a license as you all now. Like one gentleman said that reckless young man I used to be is long gone! I can’t even put into words what it will mean to me to just be able to drive myself back and forth to work after all this time. I will keep you posted on my progress and costs to hopefully help someone else that is in the same situation. God Bless…

    • Mel
      Posted March 11, 2015 at 19:12 | Permalink | Reply

      Good luck to you, I know why they do this, but I think most people do eventually learn from their mistakes. Just do your year and blow in the tube without giving into temptation of driving to the store for a pack of cigarettes or something, buy them when you stop for gas. I think that after the first year, you’ll be able to drive most anywhere but you will still have to report and pay supervision fees, forever, to Florida, no matter where else you live. Meanwhile, I’ll be out there riding my electric bike, dodging impatient people because it only goes 20 mph. Stay strong for all of us, we have something to prove.

      • Gary
        Posted March 12, 2015 at 09:55 | Permalink

        Yep, just back and forth to work for the first year. Then for basic needs, doctor, groceries, church, etc. the next four years. Then the interlock device comes off but still have to report for supervision every three months.

    • bill
      Posted March 11, 2015 at 21:09 | Permalink | Reply

      This is not about safe roads but a profit they can do these measures without the money. They find enough tax payers money to keep people incarcerated but not smart enough to use that money to keep people out. The greed is just sickening they know most people with 4 DUI’s are under employed or not employed due to their record. There is no logic why they do not want people to come back as productive citizens they really have no clue about addictions or sobriety.

      • Mel
        Posted March 14, 2015 at 11:27 | Permalink

        Assets: $25.61 million USD
        Income: $38.47 million USD

        Not bad for a non-profit organization.

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 11, 2015 at 14:56 | Permalink | Reply

      Good Luck hope you the best,

      Stay sober

    • Tim
      Posted March 11, 2015 at 15:00 | Permalink | Reply

      You will make it.

      Good Luck

  65. timothy allen
    Posted March 11, 2015 at 21:23 | Permalink | Reply

    Nobody gives a shot in Florida. They make no sense in their crimminal justice system,their jails,their laws and their Banks as they have illegally foreclosed on hundreds of thousands of Americans…nobody cares there !

  66. Ray
    Posted March 14, 2015 at 12:47 | Permalink | Reply

    This is what I hate the most about Florida. Florida always pushes for the toughest laws against everyone else. Promoted by the worst hypocritical, bible thumping, holier than thou people who are doing the exact same thing in the closet as the people they are trying to crucify.


    • Ray
      Posted March 14, 2015 at 13:03 | Permalink | Reply

      A normal person can’t blow a 0.24 on the Breathalyzer and function at all. This MADD President has been a closet drunk for years to build up that kind of tolerance. When I started drinking the sickest I have ever been in my life was when I drank 9 shots of Tequila on my 21st birthday. I throw up with dry heaves all night long. I was no where near a 0.24 as a beginner. This MADD President was drinking in the closet while damning people for years.

    • Gerbelg
      Posted March 14, 2015 at 18:15 | Permalink | Reply

      Please Do Not talk about the Bible that way and holier than thou either! It is Our fault not theirs that had 4 dui s. You ought to be thankful You are still alive or murdered someone while drinking and driving!

      • Mel
        Posted March 15, 2015 at 02:38 | Permalink

        I agree, it is not fair to blame it on so called “holier than thou bible thumpers” religion most likely doesn’t play much of a part in this. I personally knew numerous people that went straight from church to the bar every Sunday and didn’t stop drinking at one or two drinks and then drove home. I don’t know them now because I no longer go to bars. And I also agree that “we” are lucky that we didn’t kill or harm someone or ourselves. I’m sure each and everyone of us know that it is our fault we chose to drink and drive.

      • Ray
        Posted March 15, 2015 at 13:48 | Permalink

        Gerbelg; I wasn’t referring to the bible. I’m talking about hypocrites in Florida. The ones that are screaming for unforgiving punishments using church influence for their agendas are the worst. It’s not just DUI laws in Florida that are getting ratcheted up every year regardless that Florida is already tougher than every other state. Florida is becoming a police state. Go outside after 10 PM at night and attempt to drive anywhere in Northern Florida and you will probably be pulled over immediately.

      • Harold Finch.
        Posted March 15, 2015 at 17:29 | Permalink

        I just wanna say, thank God and Sammis Law Firm for this web site. Call Jim Forslund, Attorney at Law 303-332-3602 in Denver Colorado, if you wanna get your license back. Or google him . He knows the proceedings to go through, and is fair priced. That’s his main fortay .I never knew about applying Colorado law to Flordia’s DUI convictions except for seeing it first on this site. It’s unbelieveablely simple. BUT.. you gotta find/have a Colorado residency to have your license mailed to you. My advice to anybody is, to keep your mouth shut durning the hearing and let the lawyer do his job.

  67. bill
    Posted March 14, 2015 at 21:06 | Permalink | Reply

    There is a difference between bible thumping and bible studying. I have been studying the bible for over 12 years and man made justice and God’s justice are two different things. If you do not believe me read about the Roman Empire in history and how close it resembles America in Jesus time. Greed and power was a big down fall for the Roman Empire and its leaders who put burdens on people that they were not willing to do themselves or live by.

  68. bill
    Posted March 14, 2015 at 21:10 | Permalink | Reply

    Gerbelg I thank God the compulsion has been lifted from being a low bottom drunk instead of where I should be or could be.

  69. Mel
    Posted March 15, 2015 at 02:53 | Permalink | Reply

    RE:Greed and power was a big down fall for the Roman Empire and its leaders who put burdens on people that they were not willing to do themselves or live by.

    I have been wondering, if a MADD members son or daughter, who already had several DUI’s came home obviously drunk and the MADD member knew that if they had been caught it would ruin their chances for an education or of being employable, would they turn them in?

  70. bill
    Posted March 16, 2015 at 16:58 | Permalink | Reply

    Mel these new laws and DUI program lack so much common sense from supposedly college educated people. For one the cost they know most people with 4 DUI’s do not have the finances to back it due to their employment opportunities or lack of. So they drive without a license which gives the system a better chance to profit off of them incarcerated. The system knows people have to drive to conduct some means of survival. People everyday drive intoxicated without having 4 DUI’s legal prescriptions is the most abused. The only way for MADD to fulfill their dream is to have every car with a breath machine. What is really a comedy is the programs just back and forth to work but you can not drive yourself to an AA meeting or church or other program like people do not drink and drug at work LOL. You can bet any family member of MADD knows enough politicians that the public would never know about a DUI they believe they are some kind of a super human being who is flawless. Of course they have no clue about alcoholism and addiction and they will tell you they do not care their way is the right way.

    • Mel
      Posted March 16, 2015 at 18:00 | Permalink | Reply

      You’re not kidding, like the attorney that was the defense for a high profile case that was at a club drinking and the prosecution hired a “woman” to entice him too get drunk so when he drove away the cops pulled him over and charged him with DUI. His DUI was thrown out because it was ruled as entrapment.

    • Gary
      Posted March 17, 2015 at 08:58 | Permalink | Reply

      After the first year of driving to work only you will be allowed to drive to AA or church. What I can tell you is that when I went before the state review board for the supervision program the ONLY reason I was approved for the program was that I have been sober 9 years. I was told that out of the four people they saw that day I was the only one approved. If you still drink you will not get approved for this program. It even states that this program is only for people who have made drastic changes in their lifestyles.

      • Mel
        Posted March 17, 2015 at 13:47 | Permalink

        The 1st hearing I had with the DMV required me to have 3 witnesses. One of my witnesses said he saw me accidently take a drink of beer and then spit it out because I found out it was beer (he was trying to help me by lying) I was denied by the DMV but won my appeal based on false testimony, that’s when they decided not to require witnesses any longer, I guess it was happening a lot. So I was granted another hearing, which I failed because by that time I had been caught driving (my fault). Five years later, I was eligible for a second hearing, they required me to authorize them to get my medical records. I had ripped a muscle in my back and a friend gave me a pill because I was in excruciating pain, I didn’t even know what he was giving me, but because the hospital report said I had narcotics (morphine) in my system, I was again denied, I went to an appeal and tried to convince them that I didn’t know what was being given to me but was denied again, because they didn’t believe me. This I don’t understand, how can they accuse me of being a liar. I am now waiting for five years to go by and plan to request another hearing. I havn’t used alcohol since my last DUI in ’98 and have never been a drug user, not even marijuana. I know they will exhaust every means to deny me again, because that’s what they want to do. A curious thing to me is that I have had a hearing in front of the same person, three times and every time I did she had just had an accident just prior to my hearing, Hmmm I have never had an accident since I started driving when I was 15 years old and that’s 45 years ago. Well that’s about 34 years driving since I havn’t driven at all in eleven years.

      • Ray
        Posted March 18, 2015 at 00:19 | Permalink

        I can’t handle any more punishment from Florida. I was in war in Iraq and Afghanistan for 10 years since I last had any dealings with Florida. It’s why I moved to Colorado and I’m driving again with a job and a normal life. I can’t take anymore from Florida. Enough is enough. Florida scares me by pushing until I may break. I’m scared beyond belief what would happen with my intense military training if I ever did snap. It’s why I left.

      • Gary
        Posted March 18, 2015 at 09:12 | Permalink

        I understand Ray, it has been a very hard life here. That is all I want also is a normal life! Believe me if this doesn’t work out here I will pack up and be on my way there!

      • Harold Finch.
        Posted March 17, 2015 at 21:44 | Permalink


      • Mel
        Posted March 18, 2015 at 09:49 | Permalink

        I don’t want to leave Florida, was born here, have been here all my life. I can’t tolerate the cold.

      • Gary
        Posted March 18, 2015 at 10:05 | Permalink

        Me too Mel! That is why I will do my best to make it work here. Just nice to know I have another option, where as there used to be none…

  71. bill
    Posted March 18, 2015 at 19:52 | Permalink | Reply

    Hang in there people Florida can not keep digging itself in a hole. America as a whole is in serious trouble with the trillions in debt. Budget hearings will get underway soon and the criminal thugs in Washington have run out of band aids. Florida will not be able to continue the same old song and dance they know this monster system is about to turn on them.

  72. captdg
    Posted April 13, 2015 at 09:44 | Permalink | Reply

    Most of this legislation is because of crusading Mom’s who had irresponsible children.The same thing has been going on with prescription medication. A man who lost three limbs in Afghanistan will find it harder and harder to get pain medicine in Florida because of statute’s named Ryan’s law. Most “dead kid legislation” is not where the child was an innocent victim but just unsupervised and now the mother takes on a political crusade to blame someone. Now this is not always true, but it is in many instances. Plus, there are many, many people with social work degrees that are married to or know legislators and are mad that their degree warrants only a paltry amount in the free enterprise system..

  73. Mel
    Posted April 13, 2015 at 18:45 | Permalink | Reply

    Every day new micro-brewery’s open, new clubs…Now they have announced that they will start selling liquor in grocery stores. People that have suffered due to loss or injury of a loved one due to DUI want revenge, however they can get it. They may call it public safety, but there is nothing safe about me dodging cars that don’t see me on my electric bike or holding my breath every time I have to walk through my neighborhood to get to a store or work wondering if I’ll make it with my wallet or back with my purchases, or beat up for my possessions, because I can’t ride my bike in the cold or rain. When it could be as easy as a colored background on a drivers license showing that I can not purchase alcohol, much as they do for people who have other medical conditions or restrictions. If I were to purchase it, stores, bars, etc… could be fined for selling me alcohol and I could go to jail for buying it as could anyone else that bought it for me, just like they do for underage smokers/drinkers. They may say they can’t do it because it would be a violation of my freedoms, but is not what they are doing now a violation of my freedoms and rights, the rights of public safety and safe passage.

  74. Mel
    Posted May 21, 2015 at 09:06 | Permalink | Reply

    Sammis, did you close this site?

  75. Tim
    Posted May 31, 2015 at 13:35 | Permalink | Reply

    From recent headlines it seems the most deadliest DUI accidents are caused by licensed drivers.With that in mind I will drive without a license but sober and safely.

    • Mel
      Posted May 31, 2015 at 15:52 | Permalink | Reply

      Tim that is not a wise thing to do, If you get caught it’s a felony. The first time caught you will do 18 months felony probation, the 2nd time you will go to prison for about five years. Even if you are the best driver in the country, some lousy (licensed) driver could hit the car you are driving, they may get the ticket, but you will go to jail. I don’t know what state you’re in but wait out your five years, don’t drink any alcohol or take any medication that has not been prescribed to you and even if you tell them you haven’t they will ask you what doctors you have visited in the last five years and if you tell them, any test showing you had drugs not prescribed to you or alcohol in your system it will prevent you from getting into the DUI program. And you are right, just because a person has a drivers license, doesn’t mean they know how to drive. Most of the DUI injury and fatalities these days are caused by people using both alcohol and prescription pain medicine. MADD want’s you to screw up, they initially passed the law revoking a persons drivers license for life with no possibility of ever being able to drive again but then changed it to five years proven sobriety.

  76. Yimzo Gizmo
    Posted June 28, 2015 at 17:48 | Permalink | Reply

    Here’s an angle I have not seen here.
    It’s the “Safety Council” that is causing
    a lot of grief for people. I think they
    outsource a private “Safety Council” to
    circumvent “ethical” or “reasonable” standards DMV (gov’t employees) would be required to uphold.
    Other states don’t play this game.
    I’m dealing with the duplicitous Safety Council and notice they never give a straight
    answer and never respond in print, always
    trying to come up with another complication,
    another fee, another monkey wrench in the spokes.
    Isn’t there any way to sue these crooks?
    I only have one friggin DUI and FLA has
    a suspension over a 10 year old case where
    I did the damn treatment class.

    • Mel
      Posted June 29, 2015 at 11:29 | Permalink | Reply

      How can they suspend your license for 10 years if you only have one DUI? That goes against Florida statute. Were there extenuating circumstances? I have been revoked for 18 years, every time I became eligible and tried to get my hardship license, there was some little infraction (reason) to deny me. Same as the other day, went to bureau of hearings, said I needed my license so I could work, was denied because I don’t already have a job. I don’t have a job because I was taking care of my elderly mother for four years until she passed away in March this year and now I am having to take care of my Older brother who is a veteran of the Vietnam war, who has undergone numerous surgeries and is having 3 additional surgeries for 3 different kinds of cancer. If you think this is hard, try it without being able to drive.

    • Mario Tristani
      Posted June 29, 2015 at 08:17 | Permalink | Reply

      Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

      From:”Tampa DUI Attorney Blog” Date:Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 7:58 AM Subject:[New comment] Florida’s Rules for 4th DUI Hardship / Business Purpose Only / Employment Purpose Only Permit

      Yimzo Gizmo commented: “Here’s an angle I have not seen here. It’s the “Safety Council” that is causing a lot of grief for people. I think they outsource a private “Safety Council” to circumvent “ethical” or “reasonable” standards DMV (gov’t employees) would be required to “

      • Yimzo Gizmo
        Posted June 30, 2015 at 01:30 | Permalink

        Am curious, why did you resend my message? I would like a lawyer somewhere to address the specific point you mention.
        If DMV is outsourcing quasi-medical goons with profiteering-based motives in order to circumvent gov’t ethics standards then I think that’s the one angle where they can be hammered in court. That’s trouble. Remember Blackwater? Everything I have
        experienced so far suggests that’s what’s
        going on.

  77. Bill
    Posted June 29, 2015 at 10:46 | Permalink | Reply

    Yimzo, the biggest goal for them is the ole mighty dollar all in the name of safety. The other thing is they know nothing about alcoholism or addiction. They do not care about sobriety that a sober person or one who is in recovery needs to become a productive person back into society. Their goal is money and politics to keep the gears in the machine turning. As I predicted before this will blow up in their faces this nation and Florida is about to go bankrupt. People directing their anger at cops is not the answer it comes from the top with both parties. Our fore-fathers would roll in their graves to see how greedy and corrupt the system in this nation has become. We have illegals getting away with murder and human trafficking and Americans doing excessive time for suspended license.

  78. Yimzo Gizmo
    Posted June 29, 2015 at 13:46 | Permalink | Reply


    No, they did not suspend my license for 10 years. Case was closed in late 2008. I have moved to CA and they recently
    sent me a letter saying they cancelled my
    (expired) FLA license, which affects
    all 50 states, I believe. The explanation was Failure to complete Treatment class. It was not easy but I tracked down the documents proving I took the class–the exact ones–and the helpful Treatment class guy
    in another state FAXed them the documents but they still have not lifted the cancellation.
    I notice the Safety Council cronies never want to help clear things up, never give a straight answer, never provide rules in print; I feel like I am dealing with the mob. They provide fuzzy logic and little transparency so they can maximize the malfeasance and hide the corruption–and of course maximize profits by never letting go.
    Maybe Sammis can help me get this squared away. I am ready to sue or whatever it takes to get these people out of my life–I paid my dues and took my classes and I need
    to get on with my affairs and not worry about this 10 year old DUI (my first, my only) anymore.

    • Bill
      Posted June 29, 2015 at 16:37 | Permalink | Reply

      Their main goal is about profit not safety they have no value on sobriety or people getting back to being productive citizens. Their operation is to keep the gears greased for a system that is never realized that the machine broke along time ago. Our fore-fathers would roll over in their graves to see a system so corrupt and greedy.

      • Yimzo Gizmo
        Posted June 30, 2015 at 01:19 | Permalink

        Yes, I agree. I plan to start calling
        these nameless bureaucrats, particularly
        at the creepy Safety Council and ask first name,last name of the people I have dealt with, their medical “license” number, their mission statement, what gov’t entity they recommend I turn to if I feel there is abuse,or profiteering, etc. I’m leaving the country to teach soon and I would like to have some fun with their House of Cards before I go. California DMV is way too bureaucratic
        and rigid but nowhere near as blatantly corrupt as FLA.

  79. Mel
    Posted June 29, 2015 at 16:00 | Permalink | Reply

    And you should. I think Sammis is busy these days advocating for legalization of medical products and if he is too busy, You should probably find an attorney in Tallahassee that’s really close to the state capitol and while you’re at it, you might have them take a look at the whole “ddam” picture.

  80. Yimzo Gizmo
    Posted June 29, 2015 at 17:31 | Permalink | Reply

    By the way Mel, can you zip around on your
    electric bike without much effort, e.g. a
    mile down the road on a hot summer day?
    Which brand do you recommend?
    NC and VA let you ride a 50cc scooter with no license,that was fun bypassing the DMV obstacle for a while until things settled down. Although as I described above, they never quite settled down.

    • Mel
      Posted June 29, 2015 at 20:48 | Permalink | Reply

      Here is the Florida Statute: 316003(2)

      (2) BICYCLE.–Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.
      (It has a heavy plastic body that makes it look like a scooter) (it is supposed to travel up to 40 miles on a charge, but I don’t think so) Yes, it would be great if I could ride a real scooter, don’t want to get caught in the rain with this one.

  81. Yimzo Gizmo
    Posted July 1, 2015 at 14:11 | Permalink | Reply

    Woo hoo, me happy.
    The boneheads at the Safety Council just cleared me to drive. Just when I was going to go on a smear campaign about their abuses
    and quasi-medical BS (I talked to actual MDs
    about “treatment” and they roll their eyes)
    maybe common sense finally kicked in and they
    realized I was lawyering up and better to
    pick on someone else. Probably some poor guy
    who doesn’t know his rights.

    • Mel
      Posted July 4, 2015 at 22:28 | Permalink | Reply

      Yimzo, I’m very happy for you. I have not been as fortunate. I went to the administration office for my hearing after waiting out the five year period, this is after two denials, each time having to wait five years. Have not been licensed for 18 years. 1st time my fault, was driving my vehicle, 2nd time hospital said I took an Rx pill that didn’t belong to me before I went to ER for tearing a muscle my back, now they denied me because I don’t have a job. WHAT????? I think it’s time for me to Lawyer up.

      • Yimzo Gizmo
        Posted July 5, 2015 at 00:48 | Permalink

        Yeah, I would study the parts of
        the Constitution that have to do with
        “Due process” and “cruel and unusual
        punishment” etc and sue, also States’ jurisdiction, since Florida is playing grinch for all 50 States. I think I have offered some significant attack angles for the corny Safety Council who pretend to be doctors but are just DUI profiteers. There’s a FLA atty named Michael Dye I used to know that was kind of an upstart but at least he
        has the chutzpah to take on the establishment. After 40 years of MADD the
        laws are nuts—the back door to Prohibition as one blogger put it.
        Even Candy Lightner who started MADD thinks they are nuts. What more evidence do you need?

  82. Yizmo Gizmo
    Posted July 4, 2015 at 12:49 | Permalink | Reply

    You guys should lobby for the equivalent
    of a 1650 waiver like California has.
    They will relieve the suspension in your
    new state if you promise not to return to California for 3 years.
    How can one state impose a sanction in that
    state and not allow you to drive in the other 49 states? Isn’t that a flagrantly unconstitutional jurisdictional restriction? It’s the stigma of alcohol they hide behind and anyone with any appreciation of the Constitution is left in disbelief.

  83. Ray
    Posted August 11, 2015 at 19:41 | Permalink | Reply

    Mel; Amazing how time flies after nearly a year. I have not commented because I have been working so hard to achieve the goal that we all have been striving for. I have only four more mandatory counseling sessions left and I will have completed the Track A counseling in Colorado to remove the Breathalyzer out of my vehicle. I will have a full Colorado Drivers License very soon. The next step, the dreaded Interstate Compact is what I will have to deal with next. This is not easy, please persuade Sammis to keep this blog open until I finish posting the next hurdle of information for 4th time offenders to have a normal life again. Let me post everything about the Interstate compact. the final hurdle that I have next.

    • Mel
      Posted August 12, 2015 at 14:39 | Permalink | Reply

      Yes, I hope Sammis will keep this blog open for a long time. It certainly gives people who have restructured their lives some hope and an outlet for our frustrations. The lifetime revoke law was passed years after my last DUI, I had one more year to wait out my revocation, then I received the letter stating that it had been retroacted back to the proposal of the law, I had already sworn off alcohol and have never been a drug user. It’s been a hell of a seventeen years, especially when I live in Tampa and worked for six and a half years in Clearwater and the girl I was riding with for the last year and a half of it had three crashes during that time, she is still driving. I was very lucky, I never had even one while I was driving, not to mention on the days she was sick, usually on Mondays, it cost me $60.00 to and $60.00 from in cab fare to get to and from work.

      • Posted August 14, 2015 at 08:04 | Permalink

        I’ll keep it up. I’ve never taken a blog article down.

  84. Bill lauricella
    Posted October 20, 2015 at 14:56 | Permalink | Reply

    2009 was my 4th dui. I am now 62. I refused to submit to the breath test twice out of the 4. My question is:Is there a clause that prohibits me from ever getting my hardship permit because of 2 refusal to blow? Seems I read this. If so I’ll just have to retire and give up any future of owning my own business again.

    • Mel
      Posted October 23, 2015 at 13:37 | Permalink | Reply

      Yeah, I don’t understand how they can use your refusal to blow to deny your hardship, as far as I know the constitution gives you the right not to give evidence that may incriminate you, I believe it’s called the Miranda act. How can you be punished for practicing your rights under the law when in fact you will ultimately be punished for it. It’s the rules of the Florida safety council, not the law, but the law allows them to make their own rules.

    • Posted November 2, 2015 at 14:57 | Permalink | Reply

      No. There is no prohibition on a hardship after the 5 years because of a second refusal. Most 4th DUIs probably involve at least two refusals. [For the 18 month administrative suspension on a second refusal you don’t qualify for a hardship – that is probably what you are thinking of but that only applies to the 18th month administrative suspension].

  85. Dan
    Posted October 22, 2015 at 18:46 | Permalink | Reply

    What these kinds of laws completely ignore, is that some people can and do change for the better, making a dramatic improvement and putting away alcohol forever.
    I changed, but too late. Have been completely sober going on a decade now (over 6 years to be more precise), but face being punished for the rest of my life, horribly punished, for a stupid mistake I regret I made at age 23, in 2003, in Alaska. (Alaska did a thing similar to this Florida law, only they retroactively applied it to people with their THIRD dui! At the time, I was told I couldn’t get an ALASKA license for ten years. The judge never said anything about a LIFETIME suspension/revocation! This was applied to my life retroactively, long after I moved back to my home state of Washington. I’ve never driven without my license.) It was my 3rd DUI, but my first one in Alaska. The others were from 2000 and 2003, both in Washington. I never hurt or killed anyone, never crashed or had any close calls. I drove extra careful when drunk, but still deeply regret those actions from long ago. I was pulled over every time. But Alaska has decided to permanently suspend my license, making me a social and economic outcast for the rest of my life! What I did was bad, but does not justify causing my entire life to be wrecked, and giving me a life sentence!
    When I was younger, having wheels allowed me to be able to work two jobs with ease, and I had a nice lifestyle and was able to survive. If I ever left a job for any reason, I could drive around and apply at 50 places in a day or two, and would have a new job in one week’s time.
    Now it has been over 12 long, miserable years since I have been able to drive. I can’t even begin to put into words the hellish nightmare that is now my bleak existence, unable to get a job, unable to provide for my children.
    It’s a horrible tragedy when DUI’s result in deaths or injuries, but when they don’t, it’s a horrific injustice and inhumanity to give life sentences like this!!! To say it could take away the incentive to change is an understatement. More effort, time, research, and legislation needs to be spent recognizing the fact that it’s also a tremendous tragedy, and affects many others too, when someone’s license is taken from them for life, rendering them a social and economic outcast. Entire families are destroyed as a result of these simple-minded, draconian, one-sided solutions.
    Not being able to drive is an ongoing, sadistic nightmare that I can’t wake up from, and gets worse the older I get. Yet I continue to stay sober and not drink, and depend on the generosity and charity of family just to survive, and not be homeless. I changed my life and did a complete 180, for what? Hopeless and despairing a little more each day now, with no way out, with huge child support debt, and little if any hope of getting a decent job (It has to be within walking or biking distance of where I live). Pretty much just waiting to die, now at age 35. Have already come very close to at least seriously considering suicide, as a result of my freedom being stolen from me like this.
    I served my country in the Army for 4 years, and I used to believe in what this country stood for, and freedom. Now I know the truth, and the reality is shameful and disgusting. Too many corrupt, money and power hungry, lying politicians with communistic/liberal fascist motivations have been propped up by their cronies and the uninformed. Things like “Agenda 21” are sinister proof of what direction we’re all headed in. It will continue to get uglier and uglier, as more and more of ALL of EVERYONE’s freedoms are stripped away, piece by piece. Their excuses will become more ridiculous, the cover-ups with the corruption and money will become more intricate and elaborate. Yet even as the truth will continue to surface here and there, people will continue to believe the condescending scam media stories, that will press hard to influence people to vote for ever harsher, more inhuman laws and legislation. With less and less rights remaining, people will have less and less to lose anyway.
    As far as the Colorado loophole, the writing is on the wall, as another poster mentioned. Just a matter of time until new laws take effect, and they retroactively impose lifetime revocations for any DUI offense in ANY state. They will probably do what FL did, and even yank the licenses of people who actually went through all the hoops and got their license re-instated, or who have the hardship licenses.

    The only glimmer of hope seems to be to move to another country altogether, and leave this giant prison industrial complex. But after extensive research, I discovered to my alarm, that even other countries will sometimes forbid immigrants or people visiting on visas, if they have duis or driving offenses. However, there are a few countries that seem promising, at least as far as the ability for somebody to move to and get a driver’s license with no extra difficulties or prejudice. One is Mexico. Another is New Zealand.
    My ultimate goal is to move to New Zealand, but getting the money to do that is next to impossible, without a license and good job!
    I now HATE Alaska with a passion, and boycott any products from Alaska, because of what they’ve done to me by taking my freedom, and their unforgiveness.
    It will be the greatest day ever, if I ever live to make it off this island, this United States of Prisons and Police.
    If I could only drive again, I’d have a chance to do really well, and give back to my family and community. Instead, there’s simply no hope because of the horrible system that seeks to enslave and destroy as much as possible.

    • Ray
      Posted November 3, 2015 at 17:50 | Permalink | Reply

      Get your Ass to Colorado, Start new. It is not an easy road here either but you better get your ass here while the door is still open. Dude, I’ve got scars to, trust me. I am older than you are. Get your ass to Colorado. What your feeling is only going to get worse as you get older.

    • Bill
      Posted October 23, 2015 at 21:08 | Permalink | Reply

      Hang in there Dan I have been going though it a lot longer then you. It is all about corruption power and greed. I talked to a Florida politician a few weeks ago a Republicrat who said I already had my chances. He also admitted that the system is bursting at the seams it is about to explode in their faces. The civil unrest you seeing in different areas of the nation are not just street thugs but just people who have had their lives altered by this corrupt system. Mark my words Dan this resistant’s is going to keep happening more and more. The talk of justice reform and action is getting hotter everyday the monster the both parties have created they can not control.

  86. Bill
    Posted October 23, 2015 at 21:26 | Permalink | Reply

    The other part of your comment Dan is that people can change negative habits and turn into the best productive people around. I have been sober 14 years they can check my hair blood or nails any time any place and I will come up clean. This system and the politicians mostly GOP including MADD have no value of sobriety they have no clue about addictions. You are more valuable to them staying in the system they are not making a name for themselves or money with us being clean and not reoffending. They believe a alcoholic should learn their lesson with one DUI really LOL we go to hell first and get burnt over and over before the light bulb starts to flicker. I tell you Dan this system is far from biblical and far from our fore-fathers who roll in their graves to witness this system today.

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  1. […] https://tampaduiattorney.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/floridas-rules-for-4th-dui-hardship-business-purpos… […]

  2. […] occur after an administrative suspension for a first DUI (either for 6 months or one year) or for a permanent life-time revocation after a fourth DUI (or anything else in […]

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